Film-Tech Forum ARCHIVE: Control cp650 with rs232

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Posted by Claus Christensen (Member # 5713) on 05-01-2010, 01:48 PM:

hey, in our cinema we have a CP650 sound processor, is it possible to control the volume with some sort of RS232 commands?
have anyone ever tried that?

Posted by Sean McKinnon (Member # 612) on 05-01-2010, 02:48 PM:

Yes it is possible, and Yes we do it here. We have our 650 connected to an AMX via rs232 and can control format, mute, and volume as far as how to program it I cannot help you there.

Posted by Claus Christensen (Member # 5713) on 05-01-2010, 05:00 PM:

i did manage to find the commands to control fader level and format on this page http://www.iceco.com/Dolby/CP650%20%20Serial%20Control.pdf

*note to self* must remember to google the right keywords before posting a topic* sorry

Posted by Tony Bandiera Jr (Member # 2365) on 05-02-2010, 11:58 PM:

Yep you found the right stuff..but two notes:

#1: DO NOT try the method using the "REMOTES" bus, it is very flaky on RS-232, the "REMOTES" bus should only be used for Dolby's remotes.

#2: You MUST remember to disconnect your RS-232 control when using a laptop to run the Dolby setup software.

I have AMX program code to fully control the formats and volume, as well as provide level feedback info to the AMX for display on the touchpanel. Works great.

Posted by Sean McKinnon (Member # 612) on 05-03-2010, 11:47 AM:

Is there a freeware program that you can use to send rs 232 commands? Either one where you can type out each command or one where you can program buttons on screen to send a certain command? I am interested in trying to control a cp 650 from a pa sound/lighting booth below the main projection booth using a pc.

Posted by Tony Bandiera Jr (Member # 2365) on 05-03-2010, 12:03 PM:

Sean, None that I am aware of, but if you're just after CP-650 control I can set you up with a pre-programmed AMX master, 8 or 16 button keypad and power supply cheap. Send me an email and we'll talk. [Smile]

Posted by Steve Guttag (Member # 268) on 05-03-2010, 01:13 PM:

As for just a serial spitter program...Ray Derrick of Panalogic fame wrote one (Serial Talk) for testing/debugging. It has been my favorite.

You can create command sets for different processors and then just hit one button to execute.

I sent it in a long time ago...I guess it hasn't hit the top of the list yet.

There are many devices out there that will allow you to have pushbuttons that let you send serial commands too. One of the ones we sell are by Mediatech (Buttonmate).

Steve

Posted by Demetris Thoupis (Member # 833) on 05-03-2010, 04:53 PM:

There is a nifty program called Docklight. Google it. I use it for testing rs232 control when programming crestron.
Demetris

Posted by Sean McKinnon (Member # 612) on 05-03-2010, 08:29 PM:

Thanks guys!

Tony I have an AMX I could sell you! [Big Grin]

It seems like maybe steve's suggestion might work. I want to be able to have a window on a pc with buttons that I can label and program to send ascii instructions out of the serial port.

Posted by Scott Norwood (Member # 30) on 05-04-2010, 07:55 AM:

Look at the Mediatech box that Steve sells. I have used them and recommend it. The major limitation with it is that it is a one-way-only device. It can send commands, but cannot interpret responses.

Note that you will have to disconnect any existing RS-232 control devices from your CP650 in order to attach something else. If you have an existing AMX system, this may be a problem, unless it uses contact closures instead of RS-232.

Also, RS-232 does have length limits. Anything longer than 50 feet at 9600 baud may not work reliably (slower speeds will work over longer runs). There are some RS-232 to IP converter boxes, but they have issues as well.

Depending on what you want to do, the Dolby remote boxes might actually be a better option.

Posted by Robert Minichino (Member # 3495) on 05-04-2010, 09:17 AM:

If you must use RS-232 over long distances, you can get a simple differential line driver/receiver pair to extend the line over Cat5 to hundreds of feet. Gefen makes a set for about $100.

Posted by Sean McKinnon (Member # 612) on 05-04-2010, 11:54 AM:

Is there software available that will allow you to use a pc over cat 5 to control an amx in addition to the touch screen? This way the touch screen would be the primary controller but we would have the option to control the 650, dma-8, all our decks, and the auto patch from our downstairs sound booth?

Posted by Scott Norwood (Member # 30) on 05-04-2010, 12:14 PM:

Well, you could always get another AMX touch panel. They even make wireless touch panels. I hate touch panels, but I'm not sure how a computer with a mouse would be much better.

Talk to whoever installed your AMX system--there may be some option for web interface or something like that. Unfortunately, it seems that most of the people who install these systems really have no concept of how they are actually used in real life, and the result is buggy software combined with poor ergonomics.

Rant on.

Colleges seem to love these things (Crestron or AMX touch panels) for some reason. Almost every college lecture hall or screening venue has one now. (This stuff was just starting to come in when I graduated from college a decade ago; before then, classrooms just had an overhead projector, a slide projector, and maybe a ceiling-mounted CRT video projector and/or 16mm projectors in a booth. Oh, and a good professor who could make the material intersting without over-the-top visual aids.)

A typical setup would have separate pages for house lights, video projector, sound system, DVD player, slide projectors, microphones, etc. The problem with this setup is that starting or ending a film/video show requires stepping through several different pages, which can make the timing awkward. Worse, the "dangerous" options (e.g. power off video projector) are often located near the important options (e.g. video projector douser open/close). Many of them even neglect important options (such as the subtitle on/off button for a DVD player), which means that the actual remote control for the unit is still needed (but often is missing batteries or just plain missing). And of course the "35mm film" and "16mm film" buttons always get buried somewhere in the menu structure, and often do not work as intended.

These are all issues that could be fixed easily enough if the people who programmed the devices ever had to actually work with them, but this never seems to happen. The separate-functions-on-separate-pages approach is probably OK for a professor who wants to show a DVD to his class, but it is nearly impossible to put on a professional show with a system that is set up in this way, especially since manual controls (e.g. for houselights) are often not provided or conveniently located, and these systems rarely have the appropriate guest inputs for equipment that may need to be rented for special shows (Digi-Beta, HDCAM, etc.).

Rant off.

Posted by Tony Bandiera Jr (Member # 2365) on 05-04-2010, 02:35 PM:

Scott, you wouldn't be ranting if you saw my AMX programming for the screening room I just finished at UC Irvine. [Big Grin]

They have a lot of "Smart Classrooms" that have the exact problems you talk about. (That and the morons who installed them have no clue how to wire audio at all, none of the shields are connected anywhere and they wonder why they have hum and noise issues. [Roll Eyes]

)

Sean, for the older Axcess platform AMX makes AXlink bus to RS-232 converter boxes (Axlink is good for at least 500 feet.) The newer Netlink platform of course uses CAT 5e/6 so distance is not a problem. So it would be possible to situate that RS-232 box at your computer and feed Axlink/Netlink to your AMX system to do what you want.

Cool thing about AMX/Crestron is that pretty much anything you could want to do is possible with the right programmer and hardware.

Posted by Sean McKinnon (Member # 612) on 05-04-2010, 03:30 PM:

Yeah Scott I hear you loud and clear. It is very frustrating that you are left with a closed system that cannot be modified. If you have seperate video and audio inputs that are programmed to be switched together you cannot split them. It is very frustrating.

Tony, would adding another touch screen mimick the control's of the one installed or would it have to be programmed seperately from scratch?

Posted by Tony Bandiera Jr (Member # 2365) on 05-04-2010, 05:03 PM:

Sean, your question is answered yes and no. [Big Grin]

You can have the new touchscreen programmed with the as many of the same buttons as your existing TS that you want, and you can also add other functions to your new TS.

Either option requires editing of the system program (not hard at all if you know what you're doing) to add the new TS as a device to the system. (And to add any new button functions channel ID's).

A smart programmer will use matching button channels on the new TS to make life easier.

Some AMX systems have the "source code" loaded with your actual operational program so it can be retrieved from your system master. If the source code is not loaded then you must get your operational program from the original programmer/vendor.

What type of AMX system do you have? If it is the older AXcess platform the TS is connected with a 4-cond. cable. If it is the newer Netlink system it will be connected with a CAT5 cable. You can also ID it by looking at the master controller.

Posted by Sean McKinnon (Member # 612) on 05-04-2010, 07:51 PM:

I beleive it's netlink with an autopatch system if that makes any sense. I will look closer tomorrow. So if the program is loaded on the system it would be possible to load the same program onto another touch screen? Sorry for my ignorance I just do not know too much about this system.

Posted by Steve Guttag (Member # 268) on 05-04-2010, 08:30 PM:

I tend to agree about the AMX/Crestron thing. I have seen far more poorly implemented systems than good. And even the good ones take a little getting used to. Most of the good ones also evolved into what they are.

Anyone that wants to see a good Crestron system can see the AFI/Silver pics in the "Pictures" section here on F-T...I took several pictures of them.

Now, with a well implemented Crestron/AMX...the sky is the limit...most anything and everything can be controlled and controlled well.

For "canned" control systems, Extron has their MLC controllers. They offer one the ability to drag-n-drop a system together and even issue their own serial strings. They are far less costly than AMX/Crestron but are also far more limited. However, the MLC system does have "monitors" that allow one to attain feedback from the controlled device, unlike a medialink type controller.

I've set up, for instance, an MLC104 as a booth monitor controller connected to a Panastereo CX230mkII. This gives the operators a "grab-n-go" fader in three locations in the booth, the ability to select what channels they want to monitor (as well as Processor or Amplifier) and I even had one of the buttons act as a crude signal level meter. Since the buttons have tri-color display (amber, green, red, with fast, slow blink in addition to steady). I had green indicated signal presence, Amber denote things were at a good nominal level and red to denote things were loud. As such, if the projectionist sees the button turn RED...if it isn't an explosion or some other particularly loud scene, they could adjust the volume down...conversely if typical dialog scenes are not getting you into amber...it is probably too quiet.

In any event, a product like the Extron MLC 104 or MLC226 may also suit some controllability. I believe I had Extron create a driver for the CP650.

If one is trying to get multiple things to work on a single RS232 port...Kramer is the solution. It is called the VP14. It is an RS232 hub that allows 4 things to communicate together. I've used them extensively and they work like a charm. For instance, at the AFI/Silver, I have even stacked them to get even more RS232 connections to a device. In theatres #2 and #3 I have a CSP1200 Panastereo processor that talks with the Crestron, CSP4600 (accessory unit), EMK-1 automation, and Booth monitor system (this allows the CSP1200 remotes to also control the booth monitor volume). Even in theatre #1, I have one (and it is shown in the pictures in the picture discussing the Pennywise DF1) so the CP200 can talk with the Crestron, and TWO EMK-1s!

Steve

Posted by Steve Guttag (Member # 268) on 05-08-2010, 02:55 PM:

Serial Talk is NOW posted in the Manuals section (and, for the time being, on the "home" page).

Steve

Posted by Tony Bandiera Jr (Member # 2365) on 05-09-2010, 11:37 PM:

Hi Sean,

Sorry for the delay I was at my Ren Fest this weekend. [Smile]

(And will be for the next six weekends.)

So you have Netlinx which is good. Adding another touchpanel is a shade easier than with Axlink.

The touchpanel "program" sets up the buttons "channels" and designs the GUI. If you wist to EXACTLY duplicate the first touchpanel the file can be copied directly onto a new, identical touchpanel using AMX's "TP Design 4" program. (If you use a different size/model/style panel in most cases it can be simply saved as a new panel type and uploaded into the new panel.)

The SYSTEM program would be edited to add the new panel. That takes AMX's "Netlink Studio" software. Again, if you're doing an EXACT panel duplication it is extremely easy to edit the program to accommodate the new panel.

There are too many variables and details to try to go into in this thread but any competent AMX programmer can easily do what you need to do.

Posted by Sean McKinnon (Member # 612) on 05-10-2010, 11:46 AM:

Thank you Tony and Steve! Your responses have been very thorough and extremely helpful. I appreciate you taking your time to help me out. [beer]

I owe you guys a beer (Or coffee if you dont drink) if you're ever in New York!

Posted by Steve Guttag (Member # 268) on 05-10-2010, 08:25 PM:

I drink neither coffee nor beer.

Posted by Tony Bandiera Jr (Member # 2365) on 05-10-2010, 09:20 PM:

LOL I'll take coffee and a fizzy mineral water with one of those cute umbrellas for my friend Steve. [Big Grin]

Posted by Sean McKinnon (Member # 612) on 05-12-2010, 06:22 PM:

Milk Shake?