Film-Tech Forum ARCHIVE: "vibrating" picture with simplex 35's

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Posted by Tom Wienholt (Member # 1510) on 05-08-2010, 02:54 PM:

Simplex 35's with turrets. I tightened all lenses and the turrets themselves. Picture is steady when movies are first started. However, about an hour after starting, the picture seems to vibrate on screen. The vibration is very noticeable in the end credits. This happens on both of my simplex 35 projectors. Also, oil levels are at proper levels. I'm stumped. Any suggestions?

Posted by Monte L Fullmer (Member # 2797) on 05-08-2010, 03:13 PM:

are the elements in the lenses tightened down, for turret operation units can actually loosen the rear element assembly.

Also, where you saw it in the credits, the bulb could be focused too close to the shutter .. back off the bulb some on this one.

Yet, I did a service call at one 5plex cinema with XL's that also complained on vibrating images in one house and this was in the intermittent assembly. The assembly was loose in the framing cam-the two assembly clampdown tabs were loose (also, the framing cam pinch tabs were also shot as well..).

How about the later guide roller in the trap and gate assembly - is it aligned correctly in the trap?

..some areas to ask on ..

-Good luck - Monte

Posted by Tom Wienholt (Member # 1510) on 05-08-2010, 03:34 PM:

The lateral guide rollers look good. I will try backing off the bulb a bit. But, it doesn't make sense that the picture would be steady for about an hour and then start to vibrate. If there was a problem with loose lenses or the intermittent wouldn't the vibration always be there?

Posted by Monte L Fullmer (Member # 2797) on 05-08-2010, 03:43 PM:

Oh do agree with the logic, but sometimes situations will appear that will fall out of the logical situations - like if the unit has a mind of its own.

Posted by Randy Stankey (Member # 64) on 05-08-2010, 03:54 PM:

Could it be "rubber screen?"

Like Monte said, if the lamp is focused incorrectly it will cause the film to heat up in the gate. It will flex in and out of the focal plane of the lens causing a weird effect that makes it seem like the screen is made out of a giant sheet of bouncing rubber.

With projectors, lamps and lenses made today, this phenomenon should not be common but if things are far enough out of whack it can still happen.

Posted by Mark Gulbrandsen (Member # 72) on 05-08-2010, 04:33 PM:

The word Simplex Turret says it all. The problem is definitely in the turrets!!!

Posted by Tom Wienholt (Member # 1510) on 05-08-2010, 05:18 PM:

Mark,
I have tightened the lenses and all parts associated with the turrets. Also, if it is te turrets causing it, why would the first hour or so of the movies be completely steady? Makes no sense to me.

Posted by Brad Miller (Member # 2) on 05-08-2010, 05:28 PM:

What model turret? I'll bet it is a TU2000.

Posted by Tom Wienholt (Member # 1510) on 05-08-2010, 06:34 PM:

Brad you are correct. So it seems that these turrets are known for this type of problem. What's the best solution?

Posted by Randy Stankey (Member # 64) on 05-08-2010, 06:43 PM:

If it is a TU-2000 then I agree. Those things are a bitch to get right.
The best thing to do is to take them out and burn them. [Wink]

Posted by Brad Miller (Member # 2) on 05-08-2010, 06:55 PM:

Use the manual latch at the bottom to hold the turret snugly in place and give up on the auto part.

Watch the "ridiculously advanced booth training seminar" video on how to set the oil levels in your Simplexes.

Posted by Louis Bornwasser (Member # 3063) on 05-08-2010, 07:02 PM:

Let's not forget the "rattling element" problem many otherwise good lenses have. Remove lens, rap against your palm and look for a rattle. Louis

Posted by Randy Bowden (Member # 587) on 05-09-2010, 12:48 AM:

Do you see a steady stream of oil going into the intermittent? Chances are the oil pump intake screen has never been cleaned. If you are running simplex 1050's then it's definitely long overdue for it. You should see oil streaming down the oil collector tube feeding the intermittent flywheel. If it's not and all you see is a drip then your intermittent is likely giving you problems as it's heating up.

Posted by John Walsh (Member # 168) on 05-09-2010, 07:13 AM:

Could be a heat related problem; after an hour, the lamp has heated up the turret or lens holder.

Try just putting pressure on different assemblies with your hand and look on screen if anything changes; push the turret firmly into the closed position, put side pressure on the lenses, the spinning part of the turret, the entire projector itself. I have seen people place a rod under the projector to to reduce it's vibration.

Posted by Mark Gulbrandsen (Member # 72) on 05-09-2010, 06:28 PM:

I have also seen a shutter that was out of balance in an X-L. It caused a nasty vibration. John's suggestion made me think of this because as it heats up the shutter could be warping slightly.

Mark

Posted by Sean McKinnon (Member # 612) on 05-10-2010, 11:52 AM:

Can you feel the machine vibrating? I have seen everything from intermittents to main drive gears/shafts, to vertical shafts, to shutter shafts/shutters, motor pulley's/shafts, lamphouse fans you name it cause a machine to vibrate. First I would run the machine with the lamphouse power and roof exhaust totally off (just because it is usually easiest to do) Next I would change the motor belt if it looks worn (and clean out the grooves in the pulley!) and start looking for wear on the gears, or bent shafts. If those checked ok I would remove the shutter blade and intermittent and run the machine to see if the vibration goes away.

Posted by Richard Hamilton (Member # 321) on 05-10-2010, 12:03 PM:

Kind of odd that you say it happens to both of your projectors. Is this a new problem, and did it happen to both at the same time?

Posted by Tom Wienholt (Member # 1510) on 05-10-2010, 06:03 PM:

Ok so here is something quite interesting. The other night I watched Iron Man 2 all the way through to see when the vibration problem starts... The picture was steady until the reel change into reel #6. Reel #6 "vibrated" the entire time and then the picture was completely steady again for the entire length of reel #7. Finally, when reel #8 came along, the same vibration problem was noticeable in the entire reel. So I have come to the conclusion that the film has something to do with the problem.

Posted by Richard Hamilton (Member # 321) on 05-10-2010, 06:32 PM:

run that film on your other projector and see if it happens at the same time