Film-Tech Forum ARCHIVE: Projecton Booth Destruction

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Posted by Michael Voiland (Member # 5386) on 05-15-2010, 01:43 AM:

We are getting digital. Out projection booth basically just had a bomb dropped in it. They did a bunch of work on the hvac and made our 2 13x13 inch windows into a 4 x 6 foot window's in 4 of our theaters. All our stuff was moved and we have been cleaning. Does anyone have any suggestions on how to pick up the remnant dust we currently have swept daily and mopped daily.

Posted by Monte L Fullmer (Member # 2797) on 05-15-2010, 03:33 AM:

It's gonna take a while for all of the construction dust to settle down.

Otherwise, do wet mopping instead of sweeping if you got tile or hard floors. Wet rag with water bucket the walls down for dust loves to stick to vertical surfaces.

And your new digital machines is gonna suck in the dust like crazy, so plan on changing the filters out more than regularly..(oh, the HVAC filters will have to be changed out at well on the same basis..)

Oh the fun of remodels .... Good Luck - Monte

Posted by John Hawkinson (Member # 1135) on 05-15-2010, 01:57 PM:

Suggestion: Get some HEPA filters, or perhaps attach filters to the HVAC exhausts for the room, and keep the air running 24x7. Clean/replace the filters as soon as they get dirty.

--jhawk

Posted by Jonathan Smith (Member # 5609) on 05-15-2010, 04:24 PM:

They tore out the film projectors and they didn't "tear you out" too?

I'm not naturally a very cleanly person, but I made sure to keep my booth spotless with film.

With digital, honestly, why bother? That's someone else's problem who has an exclusive maintenance contract.

I'd crawl around on my hands and fucking knees, off the clock to get every last bit of dust out of the path of a platter and projector system, but I couldn't care less about our digital projector. Keep the lens clean of dust and the air intake, and the filters clean, as has been already mentioned, but why go any farther.

It's a projection room. Who cares what it looks like, except up on the screen?

Posted by Rick Raskin (Member # 1561) on 05-15-2010, 05:03 PM:

Your last statement is sure to get a lot of response.

Posted by Chris Slycord (Member # 4239) on 05-15-2010, 05:15 PM:

quote: Jonathan Smith
Keep the lens clean of dust and the air intake, and the filters clean, as has been already mentioned, but why go any farther.

quote: "Benjamin Franklin"
An ounce of prevention is worth a pound of cure.

You prevent the dust to begin with and you find yourself not having to as often clean the lenses and replace the filters.

Otherwise, it's like repeatedly throwing your kid in a pile of crap, washing him up, then doing it again.

Posted by Monte L Fullmer (Member # 2797) on 05-15-2010, 05:46 PM:

quote: Jonathan Smith
It's a projection room. Who cares what it looks like, except up on the screen?

quote: Jonathan Smith
but I couldn't care less about our digital projector. Keep the lens clean of dust and the air intake, and the filters clean, as has been already mentioned, but why go any farther.

..obviously, your area of expertise is not in the theatre exhibition business. Have to be careful what you say, for the lot of use do care about our business in a whole.

Posted by Jonathan Smith (Member # 5609) on 05-15-2010, 07:46 PM:

Let me restate: Who cares about a projector that is obsolete the day you buy it, that will be torn out again in two years?

I'm not saying leave a mile-high pile of dust on the floor, but it isn't the same as with film. You have to do a basic amount of cleaning, but not like with film.

And, no, no matter how anal retentive you are, ultimately the way the movie looks on the screen is what matters, not how your booth looks. I know PLENTY of people who care more about the latter than the former. Whatever floats your boat, but if you have scratches up on the screen, and your booth is spotless and organized a PARTICULAR way, or your booth is sloppy but the prints are spotless, which one do you think the customer will like better?

Posted by Jack Ondracek (Member # 1466) on 05-15-2010, 08:18 PM:

Guess it's a matter of what kind of environment you're willing to work in.

When I was a radio engineer in Oregon, I worked in a transmitter building with 8 or 9 100,000 watt dual transmitter sets. On the upper floor, one of the sets was installed in a windowed room by itself, climate controlled, looking like the day it came out of the factory... some 20 years before... a real showpiece.

In the basement was a copy of the same transmitter, sitting in a big room, shared by several others. No climate control here. The transmitter was owned by the building operator, one of the top-rated stations in the market. This transmitter was a cosmetic nightmare. Half an hour with Simple Green would have done wonders... but nope.

The engineer's philosophy was simple. About every 6 months, he'd shut down one side, open it up, clean the interior and put in new tubes. He'd start it up and tune it, and short of a shutdown, wouldn't touch it again until the next cycle on that side, 12 months later. As far as he was concerned, Simple Green on the outside neither added nor subtracted one day from the transmitter's operation.

That transmitter ran 24/7, and was as reliable as the spit-shined model upstairs.

So... While I wouldn't want a dump to work in, I suppose you don't need an operating room environment either, eh?

Posted by Gordon McLeod (Member # 33) on 05-15-2010, 09:26 PM:

digital projectors like dust even less

Posted by Mark Gulbrandsen (Member # 72) on 05-15-2010, 11:09 PM:

It is important to have the booth as dust free as is possible, not only for the projectors but also for the server which generally does not have a filter on the intake. Although projectors generally have hepa type filters on their intake. I do know of at least one job site in which much drywall dust made it onto the face of the DMDs and other part of the optical chain. These machines had to be totally overhauled even though they were brand new. Your popcorn popper should also be exhausted outside as well!!!

For cleaning I'd reccomend professional cleaners like Servicemaster if you are on a tight time frame.

Mark

Posted by Chris Slycord (Member # 4239) on 05-16-2010, 12:08 AM:

quote: Jonathan Smith
And, no, no matter how anal retentive you are, ultimately the way the movie looks on the screen is what matters, not how your booth looks. I know PLENTY of people who care more about the latter than the former. Whatever floats your boat, but if you have scratches up on the screen, and your booth is spotless and organized a PARTICULAR way, or your booth is sloppy but the prints are spotless, which one do you think the customer will like better?

Classic strawman argument.

You've reduced the argument for keeping the room clean into supporting the idea of scratching prints.

Posted by Rick Raskin (Member # 1561) on 05-16-2010, 08:03 AM:

quote: Jonathan Smith
your booth is sloppy but the prints are spotless

I find that statement hard to fathom. Anal retentiveness has little to do with keeping a booth clean. Its more a matter of good work ethic. Running a booth is not a one person show; there are others who work there too, and may not appreciate conditions of organized/disorganized clutter and filth.

I worked many theaters where the operator kept a tidy booth and clean machines. I rarely had any difficulty in these houses.

However, there were those few that were pigs at best. Often I'd have to clean the machines before the show. It was not uncommon to find piles of trash, left over food, chicken bones and soda cans. No one likes to work in those conditions.

In the short, good work ethic goes beyond just putting up a good picture.

Posted by Michael Voiland (Member # 5386) on 05-16-2010, 01:54 PM:

They left the film projectors but they were moved 3 feet off center is the distance I am guessing.
The new windows are 6 feet on the horizontal and 4 feet vertical.
I am going to have to clean all the lamp houses for sure and we will be sweeping and mopping like crazy I guess.

Posted by Demetris Thoupis (Member # 833) on 05-16-2010, 02:12 PM:

Let's put it simple. The booth is the accounting office of the theater no matter how bizarre it sounds. An accountant with a shit office can be good at what he does but the way his office is organised reflects on the speed of delivering correct results. An unorganized office will not deliver at the same speed. Also to that I despise when ppl think of the most important place if a cinema so little. Always remember. A cinema can still run without a lobby a ticket area a wc even a canteen. Kill the booth and the cinema is just a big seating area. No disrespect to all floor staff but unfortunately that is the truth.
Demetris

Posted by Monte L Fullmer (Member # 2797) on 05-16-2010, 03:48 PM:

quote: Demetris Thoupis
A cinema can still run without a lobby a ticket area a wc even a canteen. Kill the booth and the cinema is just a big seating area. No disrespect to all floor staff but unfortunately that is the truth.

May I add a projectionist story to this above?:

I was a projectionist for a large circuit and everyone have their days where nothing is going right-esp with the DM in your booth watching you make changeovers.

Course, I had to miss the first cue, thus, I hit the changeover late with that DM watching the screen.

I apologized to him and he replied with a calm and understanding comment that really stuck in my mind afterwards:

"When a patron comes to YOUR theatre, they see the staff and how the staff is treating them with boxoffice service, concession service and usher service and were pleased with satisfaction of the services rendered. Yet, these situations are NOT why they came to your theatre for .... They came to watch what YOU put on the screen for them to enjoy and to be entertained...THIS is what they want - to be satisfied with along with what they expect."

You might say, I ran a perfect show from then on .. it was MY theatre and MY show.

-Monte

Posted by Demetris Thoupis (Member # 833) on 05-16-2010, 04:06 PM:

Well Monte of course I meant that the projectionist is the.... accountant of the booth.
[Big Grin]

Posted by Monte L Fullmer (Member # 2797) on 05-16-2010, 05:25 PM:

quote: Demetris Thoupis
is the.... accountant of the booth.

Yes,true you did state that.

Now it seems that this new form of operation/generation needs to find a way where this position is a repected and honored assignment than just being a "part of the job.."

-Monte

Posted by Tony Bandiera Jr (Member # 2365) on 05-16-2010, 11:52 PM:

Guys, don't even waste your time calling attention to Jonathan's complete lack of professionalism, he has proven in way too many posts that he couldn't give a rat's ass about quality presentations for his audiences. I cannot fathom why he even bothers to post here other than to provoke reactions. [Roll Eyes]

But, as the gatekeeper's statement says, he is expressing his opinions, which is fine. But it will not win any points with anyone here for sure.

Gordon and Mark are both right, digital machines tolerate dust FAR less than film machines, and I don't care if it does become obsolete in two years, with as much as it costs you damn well better take care of it or you will be looking for a new job soon!!

Sheesh....

Posted by Jonathan Smith (Member # 5609) on 05-17-2010, 07:00 AM:

The assholes that built my main booth didn't finish the floor, so it is covered in cement dust every day. I crawl around on my hands and knees every week, ruining black slacks, trying to undo the effects.

When it gets digitized, I'll be Goddamned crawling under projectors, dusting everything, a five or six hour job. That's assuming they don't fire us all.

And who the fuck are you passing broad-sweeping judgements on me Tony? The way the print looks on the screen is more important than a fucking empty soda-pop can or a sticky spot on the floor. You're probably just like the booth-clowns I work with who splice on leaders COVERED with grease because they are too busy dusting the fucking tops of the NCM projectors! [fu]

Yeah, you don't want clutter to the point where you don't want to work there, but I have been up in some cluttered booths, booths even where you could say they were run by a pack-rat.

Guess what, I never fucked with the pack-rat's stuff, never moved it, I always respected others' possessions and asked THEM to move it.

I was pissed off this last week, had a few personal items on the shelf a candy-striper shirt, binoculars, and MY DEAD FRIEND'S OBITUARY and someone threw them in a fucking box and threw it on the floor.

Was it "clutter" up on a six-foot high fucking shelf?

Used to work in a lab that had a film processor. I spent 20 hours one week trying to get the fucking thing back in control because they neglected the processing control so much.

I come in the next day, after three hours of sleep to see the guy mopping MY floor, in my area.

"This is unacceptable." he said. There were chemical stains, which you can't see until they dry, sometimes overnight, all over.

"No, what's unacceptable is you mopping up MY space, that I pay rent for without my permission, instead of worrying about the important shit first. This isn't a battleship where you need to swab the deck everyday. And you're not in the military anymore" He was furious.

But, guess what: the final product trumps physical appearance, unless physical appearance is so bad it hurts morale, or interferes with your actual ability to do work.

Sounds like we have a lot of ex-military guys on here. I respect that, coming from a military family, that they beat the shit out of you for any little bit of clutter.

Clutter hurts productivity. But a little bit of durt and grime never fucking hurt anything up in a booth.

And maybe there wouldn't have been so many helicopter deaths in Iraq if they'd trained the warrant officers how to fly more and made them clean out their foot lockers with tooth-brushes less.

Am I making a "straw-man" argument then? Maybe. Or maybe I worry about the important shit first, the pretty factor later.

quote: Chris Slycord
You've reduced the argument for keeping the room clean into supporting the idea of scratching prints.

I'm going to call bullshit on you here Chris. I said there were people that I have worked with that care more about dust on the tops of the cabinets and the idiot auditors than platter scratch causes, worn-out parts, motors that have to be hand-started, and empty oil, flickering light-bulbs.

They don't pay me enough hours some weeks to even check on all of this. Yet I'm supposed to find 5-6 hours, EVERY SHIFT to clean too? Because that is honestly how long it takes me to do a really really THOROUGH job on all the projectors in the multiplex with a lowest-bidder floor.

Someone on here accused me of being the fourth woman on the board, but there are a few too many "Queen Bee" personalities on this thread for me. I am really glad I don't work with this drama. Some of you would be "swabbing the deck" while a print was unravelling on the floor or a platter was busily platter-scratching thousands of dollars of someone else's money. . .

Posted by Chris Slycord (Member # 4239) on 05-17-2010, 11:47 AM:

quote: Jonathan Smith
I'm going to call bullshit on you here Chris. I said there were people that I have worked with that care more about dust on the tops of the cabinets and the idiot auditors than platter scratch causes, worn-out parts, motors that have to be hand-started, and empty oil, flickering light-bulbs.

I stand by what I said. You argued that dust and dirt isn't all that important because you know some people who care more about it than putting on a good show and further said the same because if you scratch your print and keep things clean, your guests will hate you.

And that's the problem... no one ever was arguing that scratching prints is acceptable. It's a non-sequitur.

Oh and if your boss isn't giving you enough hours to clean (or even check bulbs), maybe you should bring that up with him/her...

Posted by Tony Bandiera Jr (Member # 2365) on 05-17-2010, 01:13 PM:

quote: Jonathan Smith
The assholes that built my main booth didn't finish the floor, so it is covered in cement dust every day. I crawl around on my hands and knees every week, ruining black slacks, trying to undo the effects.

When it gets digitized, I'll be Goddamned crawling under projectors, dusting everything, a five or six hour job. That's assuming they don't fire us all.

How big is your booth? I ran a four-plex with a booth that was 150 feet long by 30 feet deep. unfinished concrete floor AND walls, and it took me less than 1 hour per week to keep that booth dust-free and spotless. I would also use the time while checking my presentations to dust off the consoles as needed. And I hate doing cleaning work. But I never in the five years I ran that booth had the issues you have.

quote: Jonathan Smith
And who the fuck are you passing broad-sweeping judgements on me Tony?

Someone with over 28 years of experience in projection and as a service tech. And someone without anger management issues. You never did answer my question as to your experience in the other thread. Doesn't matter really, every post you make speaks volumes.

quote:
The way the print looks on the screen is more important than a fucking empty soda-pop can or a sticky spot on the floor. You're probably just like the booth-clowns I work with who splice on leaders COVERED with grease because they are too busy dusting the fucking tops of the NCM projectors!

No you seem to be the one like the booth clowns you work with, since you like to project the tail-out onscreen, so right back at ya. [Razz]

quote: Jonathan Smith
They don't pay me enough hours some weeks to even check on all of this. Yet I'm supposed to find 5-6 hours, EVERY SHIFT to clean too? Because that is honestly how long it takes me to do a really really THOROUGH job on all the projectors in the multiplex with a lowest-bidder floor.

It takes less than 5 minutes to do a good cleaning on a projector, less if you do a quick once-over before threading every show. Unless you're single-handedly running a 100-plex there is no way it would take 5-6 HOURS PER SHIFT!!

And if you're running a multi with platters, what are you doing during the 2 hours while each show is running? I worked 4,8 and 10 plex (a split with another operator of a 20) and got BORED with all the dead time between threadups. I prefer to run a changeover booth so I can stay busy. Even running a four plex as manager/projectionist (the one I mentioned above) it was not hard to keep the booth clean and running, and do all the managerial duties as well. Of course I hired good people and that made it smoother.

If someone is in charge and is having all the problems you are having there is no one to blame but the person in charge.

Posted by Monte L Fullmer (Member # 2797) on 05-17-2010, 01:20 PM:

One weekend at a 21 plex, I had 21 machines all by myself since my other 5 guys wanted that weekend off. Talk about a workout, but it was total fun.

The manager complimented me on my efforts, but recommended to me to not do that again on the simple case if I had one fubar, the other 20 houses would have suffered.

Posted by Tony Bandiera Jr (Member # 2365) on 05-17-2010, 01:24 PM:

I agree Monte, it is fun to keep that many shows going without a hitch!

One of the first things I taught my other operators in my first 8-plex (which had four separate booths) was to re-thread as soon as show ended, just in case there was a problem in another house. In which case you could send almost anyone in to start the show(s) while you were dealing with the downed screen.

We had status panels in the two main booths, in the box office and behind the concessions.

BTW Monte, if I ever owned a theatre I'd hire you in a minute!! (And pay you a lot.) I like your work ethic.

Posted by Jonathan Smith (Member # 5609) on 05-17-2010, 01:46 PM:

Tony, I could fucking get fired for this, but it is a multiplex Cinemark.

They didn't finish the floor, due to bidding it out to the lowest price.

The gates there are dirtier than the film society where I learned changeovers when I was in college.

So, maybe my situation is different than all of yours, but, understand that I have a DIRTY FUCKING BOOTH, that I personally insist on cleaning every week because anyone else that does it just fakes it in the log.

I really care about my booth and the poor little kids, that, like me 20 years ago, deserve the best possible quality for their first movie, but the company just doesn't care about.

If they cared about their clientele they wouldn't have FUCKED my booth up when they constructed it.

I cried, had a nightmare about my booth after I saw my first birthday party see a movie in it.

I'm embarassed by where I work, even having given them a tour and explaining to them why things could be better, but aren't.

I could get FIRED for doing better, but even so, I OWE IT TO these kids. They deserve better than what they are getting from Cinemark. . .

Posted by Demetris Thoupis (Member # 833) on 05-17-2010, 01:56 PM:

There are dozens of methods for running efficient and keeping a booth clean even with just one projectionist. Monte I bet you lost some weight that night didn't you.

Jonathan take it easy. Do not make statements unless you are prepared for criticism. That being said these are public forums and have freedom of speech within reason of course and based on rules and faq. Attacks against other members are not tolerated and this goes for everyone so take it easy. At least though when you make a statement back it up with facts.

Tony you still like taking the piss out of people don't you. [Big Grin]

note that no one has to prove anything to anyone. The end results on the projects we so speak for themselves.

It's a lonely life the life of a long experienced projectionist who likes to make film right always that is why once in a while we all lurk for a big recognition and a simple thank you for one of the moat demanding work in the industry. As I said.... no booth and projectionist, a movie is worth nothing without them.

Demetris

Posted by Tony Bandiera Jr (Member # 2365) on 05-17-2010, 02:07 PM:

Jonathan, I understand part of where you're coming from as we all know the reputation Cinemark has.

But you honestly know yourself that YOU have the power to make a difference!! Yes it is a bit more of hard work on your part, but it's all about how you personally wish to present yourself and your place of work.

The chain I worked for in that four-plex has many booths worse than yours (and the one I had) yet the owner of the chain always found my booth to be the cleanest. Same with my presentations, they do go hand-in-hand.

As for the other staff you deal with in your booth, are you in any position to get them thrown out of the booth if they don't shape up? Or are you in good relations with the manager or even the DM? Perhaps you can help get the staff changed out to help relieve some of the stress in your situation.

As a new-hire at the 8-plex I mentioned, I got the job through a mutual friend. When I got there, they averaged 3-5 show breakdowns PER DAY. (Not to mention repeated late starts and starts out-of-frame or with the wrong lens. We had 7 Christies with manual turrets and one Century JJ.) I had a long chat with the DM on his visit literally a few days after I was hired. He was upset about all the refunds and lost shows. I told him tactfully but firmly that we had some problem operators who either needed to start doing the job right or get the hell out of the booth. He met with the manager (who was the chain owner's nephew) and gave me carte blanche to train and "fire" booth staff. It took less than a month for me to get that place running smoothly. Our breakdown average went to less than ONE per every TWO months! (Usually just due to a marginal splice or bad lab splice.) My own stress level went way down as well.

Point is, if you have any kind of rapport with anyone in higher management, take advantage of that to make your work life easier. Get the lazy and incompetent clowns out and you'll be a lot better off, and your customers will benefit as well.

I hope you can make the changes you need to to make you enjoy your work more...it is no fun to work at a job/place you despise for sure.

quote: Demetris Thoupis
Tony you still like taking the piss out of people don't you. note that no one has to prove anything to anyone. The end results on the projects we so speak for themselves.

I do have my moments. [Big Grin]

I just don't take it well when people fire from the hip - you and I both know that. [Big Grin]

You are indeed right on both other counts: No one has to prove anything and it is the end projection result that counts.

Posted by Richard Hamilton (Member # 321) on 05-17-2010, 02:33 PM:

Jonathan, Please quit cussing! "Goddamn and Fuck" offends the 3 other females on the site.

Posted by Jonathan Smith (Member # 5609) on 05-17-2010, 02:41 PM:

Tony, thank you, you understand me now. I wish I had the same level of authority as you, for I'd make the same changes the same way that you have. Give it time and I'll get people kicked out (with the proper warning to shape up) that they don't know WTF they're doing or talking about. . .

Richard: You're an adult; please behave with a little bit more authority & personal respect than you do?

You seem like a very angry guy. Are you angry at someone else than me? I urge you to resolve that personal situation.

Posted by Monte L Fullmer (Member # 2797) on 05-17-2010, 02:45 PM:

quote: Tony Bandiera Jr
if I ever owned a theatre I'd hire you in a minute!! (And pay you a lot.) I like your work ethic.

Thx a bunch, Tony for your compliment above for I am in that very position of needing something new.-Monte

Posted by Demetris Thoupis (Member # 833) on 05-17-2010, 02:49 PM:

Johnathan please stop being offensive. If you are looking for offensing ppl we can guide you to several other sites just suitable for that. After all we all want to help.
Demetris [evil]

Posted by Brad Miller (Member # 2) on 05-17-2010, 09:03 PM:

Jonathan - you just lost a friend, you work at Cinemark, nobody cares about your booth but you...we get it. Please however try and get a grip. You will probably look back at this thread later and regret some of your comments.

However this thread has gone on long enough.