Film-Tech Forum ARCHIVE: Emulsion peeling off with splicing tape

This is topic Emulsion peeling off with splicing tape - new issue? in forum Film Handlers' Forum at Film-Tech Forum ARCHIVE.

To visit this topic, use this URL:
https://ft-forum.com/ft/cgi-bin/ubb/ultimatebb.cgi?ubb=get_topic;f=1;t=010478

Posted by Scott Norwood (Member # 30) on 05-27-2010, 09:05 AM:

I have had this happen with two recent color prints; when peeling splicing tape off of the film (good Neumade tape, not cheap stuff), the emulsion peels with the tape, destroying one or two frames of the print.

I have only ever seen this happen before with some B&W prints made in the early 1980s (which was not a good period for B&W lab work).

Has anyone else seen this happen lately? Is this a new problem with lab work or print stocks?

Posted by Bill Enos (Member # 440) on 05-27-2010, 12:35 PM:

Never had emulsion come off with any tape, never used anything other than Jack Roe, Neumade and many years ago 3M.

Posted by Tony Bandiera Jr (Member # 2365) on 05-27-2010, 01:19 PM:

Sounds like the prints might have been "wet" from the lab as emulsion that is not fully dried will peel/scrape off easily. (Remember cement splices? Two ways to get the emulsion off was with a wipe of cement or a wet finger then the scraper.)

Note that they don't have to be visibly wet to be considered "wet".

Were these prints new releases and the first time they were run?

Posted by Mark J. Marshall (Member # 1409) on 05-27-2010, 01:48 PM:

I actually HAVE seen this, but it was a while ago. I've also seen it with IB prints where the dye peels right off. But I have seen it on polyester prints - although it was a few years ago. I don't remember what movie it was, but I do remember it was a virgin print when we got it and the emulsion peeled off when we were breaking it down. I never saw it again after that, and I just assumed it was a poor quality print for some reason - although it seemed fine otherwise.

Posted by Randy Stankey (Member # 64) on 05-27-2010, 02:36 PM:

My bet: Green film.

(i.e. - Freshly processed film that hasn't dried properly.)

Posted by Gordon McLeod (Member # 33) on 05-27-2010, 09:28 PM:

who's print stock was it

Posted by Scott Norwood (Member # 30) on 05-27-2010, 09:56 PM:

These were both new prints when they arrived at the theatre. They were plattered and the emulsion came off of some (not all) reels when the prints were broken down a few weeks later. The green-film theory sounds plausable. I assume that there is no fix for this at the theatre level, correct?

I have not yet had a chance to try to correllate it to lab or film stock, other than that both were color prints.

Posted by Jack Theakston (Member # 4484) on 05-27-2010, 11:26 PM:

You might want to wax the print with whatever your preferred lubricant is.

I've had this happen before and it's usually because when the splice was made, something happened that lifted up part of the emulsion, and the rest comes up with it. Another situation may be a defective binder on the stock.

Posted by Ian Parfrey (Member # 5122) on 05-28-2010, 12:17 AM:

Scott.

High moisture content prints ( green ) usually clatter a bit more and deposit higher levels of emulsion on the gate bands/skates.

Is this happening at all with your prints?

Posted by John Hawkinson (Member # 1135) on 05-28-2010, 02:49 AM:

Assuming it is moisture, presumably the fix at the theatre level is to somehow identify this is a problem print (does the emulsion feel soft to a fingernail? Can you scratch the leader without much effort, or apply tape and peel off emulsion on the leader?), and then you can dry the affected section before splicing. Perhaps a few minutes in front of fan before splicing?

(If it's a defective binder, then life gets a lot tougher. But there's probably a chemical fix...)

--jhawk

Posted by Damien Taylor (Member # 4255) on 05-28-2010, 07:51 AM:

I've had emulsion come up when peeling fresh few day old tape up off extremely old dry acetate snipes. So I don't know whether it's something just related to green prints.

Posted by Jonathan Smith (Member # 5609) on 05-28-2010, 04:13 PM:

when breaking down movies, i only tape on the base. heads dn., tails up is the base side of a 4th gen. release print.