Film-Tech Forum ARCHIVE: Eiki 6100's need help getting parts

This is topic Eiki 6100's need help getting parts in forum Film Handlers' Forum at Film-Tech Forum ARCHIVE.

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Posted by Jon Byler (Member # 5654) on 06-11-2010, 09:41 PM:

Hi,

I have a pair of Eiki 6100's that need a few parts and I was wondering If someone can tell me where to get a manual and parts list for one of these? I have a few rotten o-ring belts, but otherwise the machines look to be in good shape.

I am also not 100% sure how to run these, as I have only dealt with table top machines in the past.

also, if anyone has any advice about things that often go wrong with these machines that I should look out for, please let me know.

Thanks in advance,
jon

Posted by Scott Norwood (Member # 30) on 06-12-2010, 07:18 AM:

There is a manual for this in the "manuals" section on this site. I have not seen a parts manual, however.

Try KMR Electronics for parts. They have been helpful to me in the past. Eiki may have some as well, but dealing with them tends to be painful.

Posted by Jeff Taylor (Member # 443) on 06-12-2010, 09:16 AM:

Sadly KMR is out of business--ICECO supposedly bought their inventory of parts. People have reported good results with the two Richards who hang around 16mmfilmtalk--Richard Burgess in the DC area (he used to be an Eiki dealer and goes under the moniker RBMultiMedia). You can also try Richard Patchett in Royal Oak Michigan. He has a website rcsclassic16mm.com. Both can order whatever parts they don't have in stock. Burgess also rebuilds the Eiki switcher supplies. I don't have his phone or email, but if you register at 16mmfilmtalk you can pm him through the forum, or take a shot with the northern Virginia phonebooks. Good luck.

Posted by Tom Sauter (Member # 616) on 06-13-2010, 08:43 AM:

Eiki no longer provides parts or support for any 16mm projectors.

These projectors do put a nice image on the screen, but there are some recurring problems:

1) The main control board often fails
2) The audio preamplifier/amplifiers often fail
3) The focus mechanism breaks the first time you forget to unlock it
4) The claw pulldown mechanism, if equipped, must be properly adjusted or you'll trash your film
5) The DC leads to the lamphouse are exposed to casual human contact on the non-operating side of the machine

The good part is many mechanical parts are interchangeable with the Eiki portable models, most notably the EX-4000 version, which can be often had on ebay or 16mmfilmtalk. Its pretty easy to bypass the whole relay system and run things manually, and to bypass the audio board right into a cinema processor/mixer.

Posted by Jon Byler (Member # 5654) on 06-13-2010, 10:43 PM:

Thanks much for the info, I will do a little more looking around based on it, and hopefully get something closer to working.

best,
jon

Posted by Hugh McCullough (Member # 1542) on 06-14-2010, 05:27 AM:

I have had one of these projectors for about four years, and so far have found it to betrouble free.
The only problem that I have had, and it was my fault, was to accidentally press the red inching button when the machine was rewinding. This action blew all the fuses, and a relay. So beware.
I have obtained the correct drive belts from a firm in Northern Ireland. I believe that they will ship overseas.
Their web address is www.projectorservicesni.com

Posted by Bill Enos (Member # 440) on 06-14-2010, 04:14 PM:

For parts etc. try Roberts Film Service, they're in Montreal so if you Google them select the English version of the site.

Posted by Tony Bandiera Jr (Member # 2365) on 06-14-2010, 04:19 PM:

I serviced a few of these machines for UC Irvine.

The belts are common O-rings, don't waste money buying them from anywhere other than a bearing shop. IIRC they were only a few bucks each, and are a common size.

The control boards are a very expensive joke, hope you never have to replace one.

Otherwise the machines are pretty good.

Posted by Jeff Taylor (Member # 443) on 06-15-2010, 09:11 AM:

I've used Grainger for those poly o rings on another Eiki projector which the factory no longer supported. They have a website and will ship if you're not near one of their branches.

Posted by Bill Enos (Member # 440) on 06-15-2010, 10:51 AM:

The electronics in Eiki's except for the lamp power supply seems to be complete shit.

Posted by Scott Norwood (Member # 30) on 06-15-2010, 11:17 AM:

I would agree with Bill's assessment.

The mechanics are fine, however. I have used 5/32" round urethane o-rings from Mcmaster-Carr as replacements for OEM round belts in portable Eikis with success. They last longer and don't turn to goo over time.

That said, if you have money, sell the Eiki and get the Kinoton FP-38E (a much, much better machine in every respect).

Posted by Jon Byler (Member # 5654) on 06-15-2010, 11:04 PM:

Thanks much for the info, I will do a little more looking around based on it, and hopefully get something closer to working.

best,
jon

Posted by Jon Byler (Member # 5654) on 06-16-2010, 01:16 PM:

somehow got a double post, and couldn't reply properly...

I was thinking of doing the same thing on the O-rings (mcmaster carr). the other belts (toothed) seem fine.

I just powered up and everything works so far - helps to read RTFM all the way through. First film played well, but my hand as a brake to keep the upper spool from unrolling is a bit of a pain (also have now way to rewind it now [Roll Eyes]

) but hopefully I will have the o-rings tomorrow or the next day. now I just need to see about a wider angle lens than the 50MM so I can get a bigger picture with less distance and find somewhere to keep and use these two beasts. they are much nicer than my elmo 16-cl that I have been using the past few years.

Thanks much for the info!

best,
jon

Posted by Scott Norwood (Member # 30) on 06-16-2010, 01:33 PM:

Watch out for the rewind function on these. If you hit "stop" when the film has rewound, a brake will engage on the feed reel. With most of these machines, it engages too hard and will cinch the film. If you must rewind on these machines, I recommend just turning off the master power switch when the film is rewound (assuming that the lamp is cool), which will allow the reel to coast to a gradual stop.

The lenses are standard Eiki mount. They show up on Ebay from time to time.

Posted by Tom Sauter (Member # 616) on 06-16-2010, 01:59 PM:

quote: Scott Norwood
I recommend just turning off the master power switch when the film is rewound (assuming that the lamp is cool), which will allow the reel to coast to a gradual stop

Heh - and allow 6000' of film to unwind itself on the floor [Roll Eyes]

Posted by Jon Byler (Member # 5654) on 06-16-2010, 02:11 PM:

there is an end of film cut off, and fortunately on the rewind you can run the film past it and have the thing stop automatically.

as to 6000' of film on the floor, I will have to purchase something that long first [Smile]

most of my personal collection is old cartoons from the 30's and 40's on 400' reels at best.

Posted by Jeff Taylor (Member # 443) on 06-18-2010, 10:10 AM:

No disrespect to the other comments in this thread, but I've owned and run a LOT of Eiki's, and have found the Ushio sourced switcher supplies to be quite reliable as are the amps--I can't comment though on the electronic controls. All of the Japanese 16mm projectors were designed and built in a "cottage industry" kind of surrounding with frequent minor design changes and parts substitutions, and given the even more limited production runs of the pedestal vs table-top machines I doubt that Nobel Prize level electronic engineering expertise went into the control circuits. As indicated, the switcher supplies were Ushio sourced, and most of the amps were either Panasonic or another major Japanese electronic supplier's product, so I'm guessing the control circuits may have originated in-house. Could there have ever been more than a few hundred 6xxx machines ever produced--perhaps 1,000 tops? Not enough to justify outsourcing or mass production.

Posted by Jon Byler (Member # 5654) on 06-18-2010, 04:23 PM:

I have no idea of the total number of these made, but mine are serial number 7927 and 7935, so if they numbered them sequentially that would put them at the very least about 8000 units made. but this may also include the variant 6120's and the 9100/9120's. I have no idea what year mine are from, or when they stopped making these, so there could be many more out there. it seems like every small college had a pair, and probably many more at larger universities. I am guessing a fair number of small so called art house theaters had one or two of these at one point too?

I am happy so far. they seem designed to keep the possibility of operator damage to the machine at a bare minimum. You could probably trash a film by loading it wrong, but other than perhaps changing the focus while it is locked (and even that, all you are looking at replacing is a rubber sleeve) there is not a whole lot you can do by accident to kill it.

Posted by Gary A. Hoselton (Member # 3447) on 06-21-2010, 01:31 AM:

Jon, my experience is EX-6000 and EX-4000P. These machines feel pretty much handbuilt, a lot of garage shop farmouts. Don't assume they started at serial 0001, may have started at 7001. They put a nice picture on screen, tho get horizontal weave if leading edge of perfs is nicked because claw doesn't pull straight down but describes a figure 8--look at claw head on when turning cam shaft. Don't trust electrical wiring diagrams in manual without wringing out wiring.

Remove lens lock and put in parts box, for have to refocus often with 16mm emulsion on pressure plate side as film thickness varies and some film with curl comes along. Use only urethane O-rings, rubber ones stretch too much and can pop off. When you remove screw in end of camshaft, loctite it (blue 242) as shaft turns in direction to loosen screw and then shutter runs into things. Install an ISCO Vario Kiptaron 65-35mm zoom lens for your shorter throw, and put 1/4" spacer in series with upper anamorphic adapter rod so bracket will clear ISCO lens. Best to service head before using much, especially oiling sprocket shafts and lube cam tank, and setting loop length and tension around sound drum. No adjustment for claw stroke, so as up-down cam wears stroke shortens and may get vertical jitter with estar prints that are overpitch. Rewinding on projector not a good idea, too much chance for film slap damage; use bench rewinds. Wipe loop resetter rubber with alcohol swab every six months to maintain friction. Nothing holds film laterally on sound drum, so if film tends to pop off replace input roller with a flanged roller from junk Eiki portable. Plug and jack from solar cell are chrome plated, if you get noise or rectification in sound may need to change to gold plating,or pull two plugs together with a rubber band to obtain more contact pressure. Front fan is noisy, if not in a booth make foamcore shroud held with magnets to aim flow and noise down. If waste light from vent atop lamphouse reflects off ceiling then rear wall to fog screen during dark scenes, hang black bedsheet behind projector. Etc.

Posted by Jeff Taylor (Member # 443) on 06-21-2010, 06:24 PM:

As an aside, I have no idea where they sourced the intermittents for the few such pedestal machines they produced, but one man literally hand built all the cam tanks for the shuttle type machines, pedestal or otherwise, through most of the 16mm projector production runs until they carried him out feet-first. Parts were literally hand filed until they fit properly!