This is topic SOLVED! Delayed Striking? in forum Film Handlers' Forum at Film-Tech Forum ARCHIVE.


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Posted by James Ness (Member # 4631) on 06-27-2010, 01:33 PM:
 
One of our Strong Super Lume X's, has just developed a weird problem, when you strike the bulb, it takes about 10-20 seconds before the bulb actually lights up, no noise, no nothing, just silence and then 'bing' it lights up. Runs perfectly fine, good light output, good amperage. Any ideas?
 

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Posted by Ian Parfrey (Member # 5122) on 06-27-2010, 02:40 PM:
 
A few possibilities come to mind...

Check the bulb connections are clean and tight.
Check the spark gap size.
Rectifier cap failing.
Failing safety interlock switches.

I would be checking the bulb connections first then try the others.

Cheers
 

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Posted by Monte L Fullmer (Member # 2797) on 06-27-2010, 03:51 PM:
 
Flaky igniter. If it's one of those white DC igniters, they love to go flaky since they don't have an autostrike circuit in them.

If it's an AC igniter, the autostrike relay is going bad.

When this happens, can you manually stike the bulb quicker than waiting for it to autostrike? If so, then the auto strike relay inside is going bad, if it's an AC igniter.

-good luck - Monte
 

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Posted by James Ness (Member # 4631) on 06-27-2010, 04:03 PM:
 
Just tried manually striking it, took the same amount of time.
I'll check the igniter, thanks for your help.
 

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Posted by Tony Bandiera Jr (Member # 2365) on 06-27-2010, 04:20 PM:
 
If it takes the same amount of time, then the no-load voltage from the rectifier isn't coming up fast enough.

Is it a switching rectifier or old style magnetic?

If a switcher, good luck...get a spare/replacement 'cuz it's gonna die soon.

If old style magnetic, like Ian mentioned one of the caps can be going bad, you could have diodes about to fail, the no-load blocking diode or resistor is bad/failing..all of which are easy to test/fix.
 

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Posted by Randy Bowden (Member # 587) on 06-28-2010, 12:53 AM:
 
there are a number of things to check, already mentioned here. However, It could just be something as simple as the airvane switch. Sometimes they get sticky and take a while to latch. But most likely, the power supply is just taking it's sweet time building up voltage. Try pressing the red button under the meter and watch for a slow voltage build up.
 

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Posted by James Ness (Member # 4631) on 06-28-2010, 03:58 PM:
 
well new symptom, today it just screeches at me
changed the igniter for a known working one, same issue
bulb strikes up great, but the igniter is making this god awful noise continuously
 

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Posted by Richard May (Member # 2627) on 06-28-2010, 05:35 PM:
 
Check the blower motor next to the igniter.
 

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Posted by James Ness (Member # 4631) on 06-28-2010, 05:39 PM:
 
what am i checking for? everything seems normal to me...i guess screech isnt a good word, its more like a super loud buzzing coming right from the igniter
 

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Posted by Tony Bandiera Jr (Member # 2365) on 06-28-2010, 06:02 PM:
 
James, did you not read my post?

You are likely having a problem with the rectifier! We need to know if it's a switcher or old style magnetic, what is the voltage reading both before and after the lamp strikes (use the little button below the ammeter and get those readings), does the bulb still strike, is there flicker on the screen while running (check with no film in the machine).

You gotta give us answers to the questions already asked so we can help you out!

You've already swapped the ignitors so that rules the ignitor out.

For now you need to pull the relay off of the autostrike board before you burn up the ignitor.
 

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Posted by James Ness (Member # 4631) on 06-28-2010, 06:18 PM:
 
Haha I'm sorry, I did read it, its a Strong switcher.
The voltage is 80, the bulb strikes fine, tried two bulbs, both the same.
 

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Posted by Tony Bandiera Jr (Member # 2365) on 06-28-2010, 06:22 PM:
 
Ok thanks, that helps.

First off, 80 volts is too low for the no-load voltage, but if you're reading 80 volts with the lamp lit that is a huge problem as it should be around 25-30 volts with the lamp lit.

If it is voltage with the lamp lit then the rectifier is definitely bad.

And that is the voltage reading with the button depressed, right?

In this case the amperage isn't too important to the process of finding out what's going on.

If all else fails send me a PM and I can give you my number to call for troubleshooting.
 

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Posted by Dave Macaulay (Member # 813) on 06-28-2010, 09:45 PM:
 
delayed striking(the original problem) on a Super Lume-X is often either a rectifier problem or a problem with the autostrike board. But you say the lamp takes as long to strike even if you push the manual strike button under the shiny plug/cap on top?
When you press that button is it making the ZZZZZ striker sound or does it wait the 10-20 seconds in silence and then strike the lamp? Silence suggests a rectifier problem or else a lamphouse interlock is open. There are few interlocks on the rectifier activating circuit - the switches have to be set properly, the side door has to be closed properly, and the airflow switch on the internal blower has to be activated (you can have a stack airflow switch too, but they are rare).
Is this new buzz/screech the ZZZZ striker sound you hear when pressing the manual strike button or is it something completely different?
Bit of a mystery anyway. There's not much in the lamphouse that can screech or buzz: just the fan and the ignitor, plus I guess the autostrike relay if it was going really mental. If it's the ignitor that's bad news since it will burn itself out pretty quickly if left on continuously.
The voltage at 80 is not right. Are you sure you are measuring voltage, not lamp amps? The pushbutton switch for reading volts is notoriously weak, and many don't actually switch even though pushed in as far as they will go. Try removing the plastic button cap (pulls straight off fairly easily) and pressing in on the metal stud that remains.
While you are waiting that 10-20 seconds try reading the voltage. It should be well over 100V volts with a switcher, about 80-90V with a high reactance rectifier. Lamp ON voltage must be roughly 20-24VDC. If you read zero volts then see it shoot up to 100+ just before the lamp autostrikes you have a problem most likely with the fan or the airflow vane switch. Less likely with the rectifier itself. If you have lots of volts but no autostrike then probably the autostrike board is failing. This is located on the inside back at the bottom behind a sheet metal shield. It sits on three plastic clip standoffs... but that's another problem. Strong used nylon standoffs, and nylon + UV light + time = fragile brittle stuff. Removing the board to service it will destroy those pins unless you have a brand-new lamphouse and Strong has used a size that I have never found anywhere except from Strong (8-32 threaded 1/4" PCB hex standoff clip pins). There is no easy substitute mounting method. So make sure the board is the problem before you remove it, and get replacement standoffs from Strong before you do. The board itself is pretty simple, a relay with the coil powered from lamp DC via a zener diode that basically subtracts a bunch of volts: simplified, to pull in the 24V coil relay coil (and power the ignitor unit) at 124V you use a 100V zener.
SO first make sure the lamphouse internal blower fan is clean (dirty blower wheels reduce airflow a LOT, and cinema air is unbelievably dirty... I have seen scary buildups of nasty gunk on lamphouse and rectifier fans) and free turning, and gets up to full speed blowing lots of air in a second or two after powerup. Then make sure the airflow vane switch is clean and free moving and activating within the fan speedup time (it should switch on at about 2/3 speed of a clean blower). Then make sure the rectifier is going into "DC ON" mode as soon as the vane switch operates. Then make sure the DC voltage gets up to 140V or so more or less instantly after the rectifier is at "DC ON". Finally check the autostrike board zaps the striker within a second of the DC voltage going above 120V. Usually with switchers the lamp strikes almost instantly once the lamp power is turned on (by automation or the manual ON rocker switch).
Something bad is going on with this lamphouse/rectifier. Continuing to use it "as-is" is not a good idea.
 

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Posted by Richard Hamilton (Member # 321) on 06-28-2010, 11:37 PM:
 
Could be arcing inside the lamphouse also.
 

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Posted by James Ness (Member # 4631) on 06-29-2010, 12:14 AM:
 
ok me see if i can answer some of the questions here

nothing happens when i push the manual strike button on the top of the lamphouse

the voltage is right at 25 when i press the red button when the bulb is lit, sorry the 80 was the amps, my bad on that one

the side door switch is working, the air flow switch is working

the zzzzz noise happens right when i hit the manual lamp on switch or if i attempt to auto start the projector using the controls

we aren't running it in this condition, its currently down until i can figure it out, my usual tech is unavailable for the next 3 weeks, so i'm kinda out of my depth on this one.
 

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Posted by Monte L Fullmer (Member # 2797) on 06-29-2010, 12:27 AM:
 
To see how much your no-load voltage is by turning on the rectifier while holding the amp/volt switch to the volt position and see how high the meter pegs before bulb ignites.

If your in the 120 plus range, no load is good, but anything below 100 or so is where your problem lies.

How old is that switcher anywhos? Is it a big 'suitcase' shaped one with fans on the one end? There is manufacturer date on the plate on the side of the unit. Plus, if you can give us the last four digits on the model number, that can also tell us on the vintage of the unit.

thx-Monte
 

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Posted by Richard Hamilton (Member # 321) on 06-29-2010, 12:27 AM:
 
does the zzzzzz noise happen only when you hold the button in?
 

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Posted by James Ness (Member # 4631) on 06-29-2010, 12:42 AM:
 
not sure if im doing this right, but i held the amp/volt button in while someone else turned on the breaker for the power supply, the meter didn't move at all.

the model number is 61001, with the 8 position switch
don't see a manufacture date on it, but safe to say its pretty damn old

and yes the noise only happens when i push the mode switch to 'man' when the lamp switch is in the on position, or vice versa
 

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Posted by Jeremy Weigel (Member # 4208) on 06-29-2010, 01:03 AM:
 

quote: James Ness

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not sure if im doing this right, but i held the amp/volt button in while someone else turned on the breaker for the power supply, the meter didn't move at all.

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quote: Jeremy Weigel

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Hold the button in while you flip the Mode switch from Auto to Manual. Watch the meter. It should reach 120v + before the igniter tries to fire the lamp.

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