Film-Tech Forum ARCHIVE: Technicolor print pick up issues?

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Posted by Michael Riley (Member # 5693) on 07-13-2010, 07:03 AM:

Has anyone else been having problems with UPS picking up the Technicolor prints lately? When they first switched from DHL to UPS, it wasn't much of a problem, but lately it seems as though UPS doesn't want to deal with film prints at all.

Lately whats been happening however is the UPS driver will come into the building with the pre-printed return labels and just leave them with the rest of the packages they are delivering, and then walk off without actually picking up the films. Normally he tries to come at times when he knows that a manager won't be available to stop him and tell him to ge the films, but whenever we do tell him, he just grumbles and tells us it's not his problem and how he's not going to wait the extra two minutes it takes to take the elevator up to the projection level and pick up the film cans.

I swear at one point we had a back up of at least 7 or 8 films to be picked up, and I would call Technicolor almost daily to alert them of this problem. I think Technicolor finally got the point last week, since the UPS driver came into the building cursing that "we called a hundred times" about the pick ups, and they cursed even louder when he had to go upstairs and fill his flatbed with all these heavy film cans.

Worse yet, despite the fact that I called Technicolor to tell them about this, they still had the gaul to charge us late return fees on some of the films!

It really seems like between the missing film cans, late deliveries, and now this, that the switch to UPS has been a real problem. Why can't Technicolor just hire couriers the way DFS does? I never have any problems with DFS, their couriers are fast, efficient, and never a problem, unlike the lazy UPS drivers who don't seem to want to have to do their job.

Posted by Louis Bornwasser (Member # 3063) on 07-13-2010, 07:25 AM:

Send this posting to both Technicolor and to any legal UPS address along with a return receipt (post office.)

Nothing on the phone (or email) has legal standing. Only First Class Mail with a return receipt. You might invertigate Certified or whtever at the Post Office.)

Tech has contracted wiith UPS therefore Tech is your first contact. I can assure you that UPS corporate will not tolerate a bad attitude with employees that contact users. Your problem starts and stops with a bad driver attitude. Great way for him to no longer work at UPS. Paperwork will help management deal with an unsuitable employee. Louis

Posted by Chris Slycord (Member # 4239) on 07-13-2010, 10:32 AM:

One quick way to make sure the guy can't give the excuse of not going up the elevator is to simply bring your outgoing shipments downstairs beforehand. Sure, the guy should do his job anyway but this avoids the issue.

Posted by Michael Riley (Member # 5693) on 07-13-2010, 11:11 AM:

That would be a solution except

A. I'm not going to leave the film cans unsecured. The location I'm at is not in a particularly good area, and things can and will walk off. I know it's incredibly unlikely that someone is going to steal a large heavy film can, but stranger things have happened. Plus it's corporate policy that film cans are locked up and secured at all times.

and

B. Neither I nor anyone I work with should have to risk injury lugging the cans and / or boxes around any further than necessary. I doubt the people who are in charge of workmans comp claims would be terribly thrilled to know that we are lugging around heavy, awkwardly shaped cans of film with uneven weight distribution.

Posted by Scott Norwood (Member # 30) on 07-13-2010, 11:24 AM:

I would argue that this is your theatre's problem if the films are not available for pickup in the lobby or loading dock area.

I have never seen a UPS or film courier that would pick up or deliver beyond the lobby/dock area (with the exception of multistory office buildings with different tenants on each floor).

Maybe keep the prints in the box office or concession area (or an adjoining closet) if your lobby area is not safe? Another possibility would be to get a long aircraft cable with loops on each end (like some people use to secure bicycles), loop it through the film can handles, and padlock them together. This would thwart any attempt at theft, or would at least make such an attempt very noisy and awkward.

I am not typically one to defend annoying shipping practices, but I do think that you would have better luck if you made the prints available for immediate pickup rather than requiring the UPS guy to wait around for a manager and then carry cans from the booth, which would be a waste of his time.

Posted by Chris Slycord (Member # 4239) on 07-13-2010, 11:30 AM:

1) I suggested you bring the stuff downstairs... not that you leave them unsecured.

2) Your workman's comp people are well aware that people sometimes have to carry boxes. Plus, if you've got an elevator, I imagine you have access to other stuff that'll help moving the stuff like dollies and the like.

But really, you can jump through hoops to make the UPS guys go upstairs and/or get the occasional late charge removed... or do something that'll avoid doing any of that.

Posted by Bill Enos (Member # 440) on 07-13-2010, 04:42 PM:

The problem is yours, the UPS driver doesn't have time to tour your facility to locate prints. Bring them down and don't worry about security---by the time a movie has finished first run the pirates world wide have long since completed their copying...those prints have no value to them. After second run I can't imagine why they bother to pick them up.

Posted by Brad Miller (Member # 2) on 07-13-2010, 07:35 PM:

The studios are very serious about security, and just last year a hard drive came up missing. Well about 6 months of silence after the fact and they were suddenly threatening lawsuits, MPAA, FBI, child rape, murder and the burning down of the theater to get that stupid drive back. It was ridiculous because IT IS JUST A HARD DRIVE WITH ENCRYPTED DATA FOR A MOVIE THAT IS ALREADY OUT ON DVD!!!

Seriously, what the fuck is some pirate going to do with it?

Find a place downstairs to keep the prints locked up and have them ready. (Most box offices have a locking door, so that is suitable.) Problem solved.

Posted by John Hawkinson (Member # 1135) on 07-13-2010, 07:44 PM:

The issue is a bit complex, but I think the general sentiment here is right -- you're asking a bit too much.

The problem you are having is specific to your local UPS driver and your theater, but it's absolutely Technicolor's job to be your interface if talking to your UPS driver casually didn't work. (That is, it's TES job to mediate the problems, but talking to UPS might be more direct and easier for everyone).

Generally speaking, UPS is not required to do inside deliveries within buildings, and their responsibility stops at the door. But did you find DHL/Airborne behaved differently? Is there a tradition or established practice?

We're on a large college campus, and UPS and FedEx deliveries have a lot of complicated issues. In some buildings, drivers deliver directly to offices on multiple stories. In other buildings, they deliver to a loading dock. In other groups of buildings, they deliver to a centralized loading dock. And it's different for ground and next-day deliveries. The exact details of this are carefully complicated and the subject of negotiation. For instance, because FedEx Express does direct delivery instead of centralized delivery, they choose to waive the delivery guarantee times they would normally provide.

In your case, it will probably turn out that it is not UPSes responsibility to climb your elevator and retrieve your prints from upstairs. But it is their responsibility to give the call tags to an authorized agent and wait a reasonable period of time for the package to be produced.

On our route, UPS drops off the call tags at the 9am delivery and comes back and picks up the cans at 4pm (or 6pm...or 8pm...) when he finishes emptying his truck which arrives stuffed-to-the-gills. That works pretty well for us. Maybe your driver would be willing to swing back later on if that works for him.

On the other hand, if relations with your driver have so horribly deteriorated, it might be helpful to go have a chat with the UPS depot supervisor... again, not your responsibility (your job is to talk to TES), but it might help to smooth things over.

Good luck!

Posted by Dustin Mitchell (Member # 372) on 07-13-2010, 08:57 PM:

I doubt it takes 'an extra 2 minutes' to make your way from your lobby to an elevator, go up then back down, and out the lobby again. I've got news for you; UPS drivers might be unionized but they work there ASSES off. You ever watch those guys make deliveries you will notice that half the time they are almost running. They are timed in everything they do. I knew a guy who worked in a UPS sorting center and time was everything to those guys-if you couldn't keep up you were gone.

Stop being lazy, haul the damn film cans down from the booth yourself. If you have some genuine handicap that prevents you from handling them have someone else do it for you.

Posted by Mike Blakesley (Member # 26) on 07-13-2010, 09:03 PM:

When Technicolor first started handling prints, they provided a detailed list of things that needed to be done, and one thing was to have an easily-accessible print pickup area for the truck drivers. Everyone else here is right: The driver has no responsibility to go to your booth to pick up prints.

The driver is also not SUPPOSED to leave the label for next-day use. If your print isn't picked up, he's supposed to turn that label back in and and BAM! you get a late pickup charge.

quote: Michael Riley
It really seems like between the missing film cans, late deliveries, and now this, that the switch to UPS has been a real problem.

I'm not saying there are never any problems anywhere, but here, the UPS guys go out of their way to help us. They truly do work their asses off -- what's posted above is true, they are rigidly timed.

Posted by Jason Metcalfe (Member # 5739) on 07-13-2010, 09:37 PM:

Just be thankful it's technicolor and not Deluxe, we have to practically beg Deluxe to pick up their prints, which usually doesn't happen until months after they've stopped showing.

Posted by Brad Miller (Member # 2) on 07-13-2010, 10:42 PM:

That has nothing to do with Deluxe. That has to do with YOUR lazy ass film carrier, whoever it is.

Posted by Joe Redifer (Member # 3) on 07-13-2010, 10:54 PM:

I wish I had an elevator to get film cans... ooops, I mean boxes up and down to the booth. That would make things so much easier. Instead, I carry them up and down stairs to the front of the theater for pickup which never fails.

Posted by John Hawkinson (Member # 1135) on 07-13-2010, 11:28 PM:

A few corrections.

Mike Blakesley says, "The driver is also not SUPPOSED to leave the label for next-day use."

I don't think that's not strictly-speaking correct. There is a scan code for "LABEL LEFT..." or something like that...wow that took too much digging:

Yes, I know that TES's call tags say "ONE PICKUP ONLY." I'm not sure that means what you might think it might mean...

To expand on Brad's: "That has nothing to do with Deluxe. That has to do with YOUR lazy ass film carrier, whoever it is."

Deluxe does not manage the couriers who transit prints between theatres and the depot. They are all independant companies. A surprising number of theatres don't understand that... In some geographical areas, there are competitive choices. In others, it's basically one choice (plus UPS and FedEx, but that's often impractical).

That said, they sometimes have influence. But make sure you're talking to the right people...

--jhawk

Posted by Jack Ondracek (Member # 1466) on 07-14-2010, 12:19 AM:

Grumpy drivers aside...

UPS drivers are rated by how many deliveries they get done within the time allotted. In my area, it's as little as 5 minutes in and out, averaged over the shift.

I've never heard of a delivery person being required or willing to go past an entranceway to get film. Our driver is willing to go up the back steps to our booth, but I prefer he not do that.

The original plan was for them to attempt ONE pickup. If you didn't have the print ready, they'd leave the labels and YOU would have to call when the pickup was ready. That could result in a missed pickup charge. In our area, this hasn't been enforced, as they've tried to be a little more flexible.

Overall, we haven't had any problems with UPS. I'd say you've got an "exceptional" driver. Perhaps a phone call or visit to the local depot might help, but I'd make a point of bringing the prints downstairs.

Posted by Robert D Hall (Member # 5674) on 07-14-2010, 12:47 AM:

we do have the same trouble with ups.we keep all out going prints in our box office and its next to the front door. the same place he drops off. he is not rude and will take the prints if told to. but if no one is watching him he will just drop off and run.

Posted by Monte L Fullmer (Member # 2797) on 07-14-2010, 03:57 AM:

quote: Michael Riley
B. Neither I nor anyone I work with should have to risk injury lugging the cans and / or boxes around any further than necessary

Gee, when I worked in a discount house with quite the cadry of film that would come in and out, guess who had to haul all of them up and down three flights of stairs since the yo-yo kiddie staff downstairs whined about the same factor above and the manager was one of them...? Not Hulk Hogan, to give a hint...

..and I'm 59 yrs old and have been lugging film up and down since I was 18 and never got hurt, disabled or have any back problems with all the film that I've hauled..

Now, I can finally get spoiled a bit: got a film dolly and an elevator to do the print hauling from downstairs to up, but still use a board to move prints from house to house in this 14 plex that I'm working in....so, I still have to lift and haul film...lol

Posted by Manny Montes (Member # 5639) on 07-14-2010, 05:12 AM:

I wish we had an elevator, I usually end up getting a floor staff member to come up and help me haul out this weeks shipments, keep them in the box office (locked).

Our UPS driver is great, he always asks "got those films ready for me?" and we always do. While sometimes I think it may be the driver is just a bad apple, every single time if we treat them well and have what they need ready to go (not fumbling to get it at the last minute and wasting their time) they are always kind in return.

Posted by John Hawkinson (Member # 1135) on 07-14-2010, 11:35 AM:

Oh, also: be nice. Give the guy a free popcorn and soda every once in a while.

--jhawk

Posted by Mike Blakesley (Member # 26) on 07-14-2010, 12:17 PM:

quote: John Hawkinson
Mike Blakesley says, "The driver is also not SUPPOSED to leave the label for next-day use."

I don't think that's not strictly-speaking correct.

I think we're both correct, actually. The driver CAN leave the label but if he does, it's probably going to result in a late pickup charge. TES was having trouble with people not having prints ready so they instituted the charge. I think we got a letter on it about a year ago.

Posted by Monte L Fullmer (Member # 2797) on 07-14-2010, 01:13 PM:

..they did on us this week by leaving the shipping labels since a Tech print didn't get broken down on Thurs...

Posted by Scott Norwood (Member # 30) on 07-14-2010, 01:18 PM:

I am confused. I generally don't deal with print traffic issues, but I did have some prints delivered to and picked up from my office at my full-time job for a festival recently. The UPS guy who picked up the prints showed up with some labels, stuck them on the cans, and then took the prints (with the new labels). But people here are speaking of labels being delivered first and then a return trip being made to pick up the print. What would be the point of that, when one trip would do?

Posted by John Hawkinson (Member # 1135) on 07-14-2010, 01:20 PM:

There's some question as to whose job it actually is to stick the labels on (the customer or the UP driver). But in our case, our driver comes back because he doesn't have room in his truck in the morning, and it's easier for him to do pickups in the afternoon after he has emptied his truck.

Because his route is a very dense urban area, that's easy for him. It may not generalize very well.

--jhawk

Posted by Jack Ondracek (Member # 1466) on 07-14-2010, 01:24 PM:

quote: Scott Norwood
But people here are speaking of labels being delivered first and then a return trip being made to pick up the print. What would be the point of that, when one trip would do?

That's what they're supposed to do if they show up and the print is not ready for them. Rather than continue to show up, not knowing one way or the other, they're supposed to leave the label, and have you call when they can pick them up.

I'm pretty sure Technicolor gets word of this, too... though it's more likely I'll get 3 or 4 daily faxes from them before the first actual pickup attempt.

Posted by Scott Norwood (Member # 30) on 07-14-2010, 01:33 PM:

jhawk--but why would he make two trips? Why not just show up once with the labels, attach the labels then, and take the prints? That would seem to be easier for all concerned.

Same for prints that are not ready--why not just leave a sticker or something that says "call 1-800-555-2368 to arrange for print pickup," rather than labels that may be lost or stuck on the wrong prints?

Does the prints-not-ready-for-pickup thing really happen that often? Assuming that the driver arrives at his scheduled time (usually the day after the end of the engagement), I don't see why it would be a problem. If the print is being picked up immediately after a screening, it seems that notice is always given to the theatre that the print needs to be ready by xx o'clock.

Forgive me if some of these questions are naive.

We can certainly argue some minor points (for example, two nearby theatres ought to be able to make their own pickup/delivery arrangments for prints going from one to another, in order to save shipping costs), but the basic system seems to work pretty well.

Posted by John Hawkinson (Member # 1135) on 07-14-2010, 04:04 PM:

Again, his truck is full when he arrives initially, and he would rather empty out his truck and make space rather than carry them around with him all day and have them get in the way. It's not like he's more than a few blocks away at the end of the day anyhow. He spends his whole day here at MIT...

I don't see why the labels are likely to get lost or stuck on the wrong prints. They are pretty clearly labeled with the print they belong to. And leaving the labels means he doesn't have to wait for the labels to be applied (or apply them himself) when he returns later.

I don't really know, but I think it's not rare that prints are not ready for pickup.

--jhawk

Posted by Joe Redifer (Member # 3) on 07-14-2010, 05:11 PM:

All of my outgoing prints are ready for pickup Friday am no matter what. The Deluxe courier usually comes Friday am and then UPS swings by around 5pm or so and picks up the things that are orange.

Posted by Mike Blakesley (Member # 26) on 07-14-2010, 08:47 PM:

quote:
for prints that are not ready--why not just leave a sticker or something that says "call 1-800-555-2368 to arrange for print pickup,"

The idea is that the prints are supposed to be ready for pickup on the appointed day. Back in the Airborne days, the return label was already attached to the print (under the shipping label), and the expected date of pickup was programmed into the depot's computers so there was an automatic charge if your driver showed up to get a print and it wasn't ready.

With UPS and the labels, it became easy for people to say "leave the label, I'll have it for you tomorrow," so a lot of prints were getting back to the depot late. So UPS figured out a way to reinstate the late-pickup charge if the label doesn't go thru the system by the right date.

Posted by David E. Nedrow (Member # 4981) on 07-14-2010, 10:18 PM:

Our DFS courier is really good, and he just comes between 2-4am to deliver/pickup.

UPS is a bit of a problem for us, since we appear to be early on his route (eg. prior to 9am). Sorry folks, but I'm not even typically up by 10am, let alone 8am. So he usually ends up sticking the labels in our door. If he sees my truck around, he'll knock and give it a minute or two. He's reasonable, though I'd like to end up later on his route.

Hi replacement driver(s), however, is/are a problem. They don't even stop at the theatre when they see the "Closed" sign in the door. They don't leave the pickup labels, nor do they leave "attempted delivery" notices when they're dropping stuff off. I even have printed signs displayed on all the doors with a giant "DELIVERIES" header. My phone and a brief request that they try drop offs next door, or call me, etc.

In any case, our DFS courier is like a gentle wind that comes in the night, kicking up and taking some old cruft with him, and dropping new cruft in his wake. Completely hands off.

Much more brute force with UPS. Fortunately, I live 2 minutes from a major sorting facility, so I can drop the TES prints off on my way in to the theatre.