Film-Tech Forum ARCHIVE: Film cleaner media takeup strategies

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Posted by David E. Nedrow (Member # 4981) on 08-04-2010, 10:26 PM:

Does anyone have a strategy for reducing the amount of "roll off" that I'm seeing with media that's taken up on the Kelmar film cleaner? I generally have to "touch" the cleaner every 40 minutes or so. Strangely, it's only the top media pad that runs off the take up roller. The lower pad has some un-eveness on the take up, but nothing like the top, which might end up with a one inch tail hanging off the take up.

-David

Posted by John Wilson (Member # 269) on 08-05-2010, 12:27 AM:

Make sure the end is feeding onto the reel straight on.

When you rewind, make sure the rewound media sits as flat as possible up against the back of the spindle. Don't let it fold though...

Posted by Joe Redifer (Member # 3) on 08-05-2010, 03:13 AM:

When I first saw this thread, I thought it was titled "Film cleaner media take up tragedies". I immediately knew what you were talking about. Some cleaners are just bad, I find. But yeah, putting the tape in the center and feeding it on to the take up core perfectly straight does help. Or you can try to install giant washers to act as flanges.

Posted by David E. Nedrow (Member # 4981) on 08-05-2010, 03:55 PM:

"Film cleaner media take up tragedies"

Hah. I almost did have one of those when I forgot to tighten the takeup and the projector proceeded to ingest cleaning media along with the film.

I've thought about the washers, and can't see any drawback, at least on the upper takeup. Doesn't look like enough clearance on the bottom takeup, but then that one takes up with zero problem for me.

Posted by Jeremy Weigel (Member # 4208) on 08-05-2010, 04:06 PM:

Any chance that your upper take up spindle is loose or bent? This could cause this symptom.

Posted by Brad Miller (Member # 2) on 08-05-2010, 04:11 PM:

This is generally caused by not taping the media to the takeup core straight. That being said, often the end of the media is cut slightly off and some people use that as a guide. Don't do that. Do a half wrap around the takeup core and use the edges of the media to line up with the edges of the takeup core and then tape it down. (Make sure your takeup core is truly seated all the way back.)

Posted by David E. Nedrow (Member # 4981) on 08-05-2010, 09:58 PM:

I think the mechanics are true, so it may just be me not be careful enough with taping the end on. I was very careful this time, so we'll see how it goes. This is also the first batch of Film-Tech media where I'm not fooling around with media core transfers.

-David

Posted by Joe Redifer (Member # 3) on 08-06-2010, 12:22 AM:

You can cut the media in half for most normal-length films.

Also, it really helps to be extremely careful as you rewind the media. I usually don't have any problems with it taking up unevenly, but then someone else comes along, rewinds the media and then OH MY GOD! It is truly a tragedy and takes several minutes to rewind it after that show, trying to get it back to being straight.

Posted by Brad Miller (Member # 2) on 08-06-2010, 02:46 AM:

The trick to rewinding the media smoothly is to ensure your takeup cores SPIN FREELY once you have loosened the set screw.

Cardinal has found a replacement rubber insert solution which is excellent. I highly recommend anyone who has cleaners that when the thumbscrews are loosened the takeup cores don't spin effortlessly to demand some Cardinal replacements. Don't buy them from Kelmar, they fit too tight!

Posted by Joe Redifer (Member # 3) on 08-06-2010, 09:42 AM:

I cut notches out of the Kelmar rubbers.

Posted by Barry Floyd (Member # 385) on 08-06-2010, 09:46 AM:

are there such things as replacement cardboard cores for the take up rollers? Mine seem to be saturated with Film Guard and I can't get the tape to stick to them anymore.

Posted by Chris Slycord (Member # 4239) on 08-06-2010, 11:46 AM:

If you've been buying film guard, wouldn't you have some of the plastic cores that the stuff got shipped with?

Posted by Barry Floyd (Member # 385) on 08-06-2010, 12:51 PM:

Not to sound stupid or anything, but can the black plastic media cores be used in place of the cardboard cores on the "take-up" side of the film cleaner. I've never tried to get the cardboard cores off. I always thought they were a part of the unit.

On my Kelmar cleaner, it has cardboard tubes over the take up spindles, and I can loosen the thumb screw to rewind them or tighten it up so the cleaner will wind the media. I bought this cleaner used. Is it possible the cardboard cores I thought were part of the machine was actually somebody elses left-over trash that I've been using over and over for 4 years?

Posted by Darryl Spicer (Member # 711) on 08-06-2010, 02:18 PM:

quote: Barry Floyd
Is it possible the cardboard cores I thought were part of the machine was actually somebody elses left-over trash that I've been using over and over for 4 years?

Yep

When you remove the cardboard tubes from the take-up make sure you get all three parts out of the core, if they are all there. There is like a rubber spacer that goes in the middle of the core to help keep the core from slipping on the take-up shaft.

Posted by Chris Slycord (Member # 4239) on 08-06-2010, 02:55 PM:

quote: Barry Floyd
Not to sound stupid or anything, but can the black plastic media cores be used in place of the cardboard cores on the "take-up" side of the film cleaner. I've never tried to get the cardboard cores off. I always thought they were a part of the unit.

1) The reason that new kelmar cleaning pads tend to include an empty cardboard core is that they expect you to have tossed them after being used. I'd espesially toss them if I'd been using film-guarded pads on them as the cardboard usually became useless really quickly

2) Yes you can use the plastic cores on both ends. But just to avoid having some noobs get confused, you can turn the takeup core so that the rewinding mechanism is going inward (not showing to the outside).

Posted by Brad Miller (Member # 2) on 08-06-2010, 04:11 PM:

Removing and changing the takeup core will with use damage your rubber inserts (and more often, cause them to get lost). Always loosen the takeup thumbscrews and yank the media off of the rolls, then reuse the same takeup cores over and over.

If the takeup cores don't spin freely with the takeup thumbscrews, again...get the Cardinal ones.

Posted by Barry Floyd (Member # 385) on 08-10-2010, 09:35 AM:

quote:
Cardinal has found a replacement rubber insert solution which is excellent. I highly recommend anyone who has cleaners that when the thumbscrews are loosened the takeup cores don't spin effortlessly to demand some Cardinal replacements . Don't buy them from Kelmar, they fit too tight!

After changing out my take up rollers and replacing them with a pair of old empty plastic media cores.... even with the thumbscrew loosened - they won't turn. Who or what is this "Cardinal" place?

Posted by System Notices (Member # 2357) on 10-27-2017, 04:37 AM:

It has been 2634 days since the last post.

Posted by Garry Knapp (Member # 9697) on 10-27-2017, 04:37 AM:

Odd question about these cleaners....
can the cleaning rolls be flipped over and used again?
...as in use the other side of the media...
I think I saw someone do this...

Posted by Steve Guttag (Member # 268) on 10-27-2017, 07:42 AM:

NO!!!! The embedded dirt WILL poke through and damage the film.

Now, if you are using Film-Guard, then you can/should rewind the roll and reuse each show as the first pass is the "application" pass. The rest are the spreading/cleaning passes.

Posted by Randy Stankey (Member # 64) on 10-27-2017, 02:44 PM:

I agree with Steve.

The only time you should reuse cleaning media rolls in any fashion, flipped over or not, is when you are using Film-Guard.

Film-Guard will allow you to reuse media rolls several times but, even then, you should still change the media when it gets too dirty.

Posted by Garry Knapp (Member # 9697) on 10-28-2017, 12:03 AM:

Thanks [Smile]