Film-Tech Forum ARCHIVE: Need help decoding Projectionist label on leader

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Posted by Bob Jones (Member # 1756) on 08-23-2010, 05:31 PM:

The following projectionist applied writing applied to tape and applied to leader:

"Title of Film"/PG/FLAT/QUAD/#3004/Sony/ELB

So - my question is - what is the #3004 for? - it doesn't relate to the print number which is known - and there is a different four digit number, non sequential on different reels. I am assuming QUAD is for sound (SDDS/DTS/DD/SR)? And is ELB initials of the projectionist?

-- Thanks

Posted by Tony Bandiera Jr (Member # 2365) on 08-23-2010, 05:38 PM:

Hi Bob,

The #3004 is most likely a print number..look closely at ALL of the leaders and you should see at least one reel with that number. A circuited print that has been back to the depot is most likely a mix of reels from different prints to try to assemble a good print.

The ELB is most likely the projectionist initials.

You are correct that the QUAD refers to the sound tracks available on the print.

Another fun fact: if you see "ON-2", "ON-3", etc. on the labels it tells you how many cans are supposed to arrive for that print.

Posted by John Hawkinson (Member # 1135) on 08-23-2010, 07:44 PM:

Close, Tony, but not quite.

PRINT numbers are different from COPY numbers.
Each reel gets a COPY number, typically sequentially as it comes off the printer.

A bunch of reels get assembled into a print. Typically their COPY numbers were not be the same, but often happen to be close. That print is labelled with a PRINT number. That PRINT number will have no relationship to the COPY number, though again, there may be coincidences.

(Or, say, in a run of 10 prints, they might just happen to all match up.)

And yes, of course, when reels are shuffled from print to print (or when database changes happen), the PRINT number that applies to a reel may change.

--jhawk

Posted by Joe Redifer (Member # 3) on 08-23-2010, 08:06 PM:

jhawk, you have a typo in your post. I request that you please fix it. Thank you for your time.

--jred

Posted by Bob Jones (Member # 1756) on 08-23-2010, 08:39 PM:

Hmmmm - ok - I notice the Copy# on each reel -- and I was thinking that was a print number. The only other number on the label that might be a print # (if you say each reel also has a print number) is the long number underneath the barcode - is the print number that long? And again - I realize there are numerous different labels from each lab. Interesting questions - does each studio specify the format/information on the barcode labels from the lab - or does the lab do it - and all the studios follow the same format.

Back to my original questions - I just don't see #3004 on any of the reels - so I thought it may be for something else.

much thanks.

--B

Posted by Chris Slycord (Member # 4239) on 08-23-2010, 09:14 PM:

quote: Bob Jones
Back to my original questions - I just don't see #3004 on any of the reels - so I thought it may be for something else.

That's because a projectionist from a platter house had the movie before you. They stuck a label on the final reel only to help them quickly see which movie was which and which copy is which if you have multiple.

And individual reels don't normally have the print number printed on them.

Posted by Joe Elliott (Member # 4006) on 08-23-2010, 11:52 PM:

And if that number still dosen't match what is on your cans, the projectionist who tore it down grabbed the cans for one of the other prints they had.

Posted by Joe Redifer (Member # 3) on 08-23-2010, 11:58 PM:

It doesn't matter which cans you grab or which print you break down if you're losing one of multiple... it'll always be the wrong one. The courier will come and demand the other print because they need a specific print number which will never be the print you provide for them. Murphy's Law. Thus, can-swapping must then take place to appease the courier and (usually) TES.

Posted by Chris Slycord (Member # 4239) on 08-24-2010, 12:15 AM:

It also could be that you got a "mix-and-match" print, where it's actually composed of reels that were each from different prints since they might try to get the best reels available if most of the prints got trashed by previous people.

quote: Joe Redifer
The courier will come and demand the other print because they need a specific print number which will never be the print you provide for them.

And they'll often not send out anything specifying which print they wanted to begin with so you at least know which cans to take.

Posted by Joe Redifer (Member # 3) on 08-24-2010, 12:24 AM:

I've tried my hardest to outsmart them by honestly believing that I would be giving them a certain print number and then at the last second swapping cans before I take it down. I still lost! There's nothing you can do to defeat them.

Posted by Jeremy Weigel (Member # 4208) on 08-24-2010, 12:39 AM:

I usually just call Deluxe or Technicolor and ask which print# they want sent back.

Posted by Chris Slycord (Member # 4239) on 08-24-2010, 12:48 AM:

I've also had it where the courier got mad that I wasn't giving him the print number he was looking for even after explaining that the one I gave him was the only copy we ever got.

Posted by Brad Miller (Member # 2) on 08-24-2010, 06:29 AM:

quote: Chris Slycord
And they'll often not send out anything specifying which print they wanted to begin with so you at least know which cans to take.

I got an answer to this one once before. Supposedly when a theater has 2 or more prints of the same movie, they always want the print with the lowest number first, and then increasing.

Posted by Darryl Spicer (Member # 711) on 08-24-2010, 10:33 AM:

quote: Brad Miller
I got an answer to this one once before. Supposedly when a theater has 2 or more prints of the same movie, they always want the print with the lowest number first, and then increasing.

Hmmmm, it's the opposite here, they always want the highest number.

Posted by Greg Routenburg (Member # 1742) on 08-24-2010, 11:56 AM:

I can't speak to anything coming from a Technicolor lab but none of the labels on the individual reels originating from a Deluxe lab have the actual print number. Here in Canada, unless it's an old print with very limited numbers in circulation, the film service will almost never swap reels out. For security reasons, the lab keeps track of the reels that were assigned to each print number on release so that they can be tracked independently in the event something happens to the print. The number on the tape was almost certainly a print number.

Also, consider this.

A theatre books three screens of the next big release. After opening week, the third print is pulled but it's sent back in the cans from one of the prints that is still playing. That print then gets booked to a different theatre where it's pirated. The print number associated with the capcode for that print is still booked at your theatre. You have to deal with the investigation and the consequences that result. Although it's not likely, it's certainly possible and why risk it. The moral of this story, send your prints back in the right cans.

Posted by Monte L Fullmer (Member # 2797) on 08-24-2010, 12:16 PM:

Interesting is that on both 'grey can' and 'orange can' prints that I send out if any from a multiple print situation (like we had 4 prints of "Eclipse"), I've never been confronted on which print number that is needed to head back to the respective depot.

That's a-one that I never heard of ..

Posted by Scott Norwood (Member # 30) on 08-24-2010, 12:46 PM:

My personal pet peeve about theatres-with-multiple-prints is theatres that do not re-attach the head and tail leaders to the particular reels with which they originally came.

In other words, the heads and tails that go with the the reels of print #1001 should be re-attached to the reels of print #1001, not print #1002. The reason for this is to ensure that the film stock edgeprint identification matches, so that the next theatre can ensure that the correct head and tail leaders were attached to the correct reels. This is critical if "reference frames" are either not left attached to the leaders or if they are removed at a subsequent theatre.

One thing that I will do (which I hope does not cause issues for anyone down the line) in the rare circumstance that I get multiple prints of the same title is try to mix and match reels to assemble one print which has no lab splices or other flaws. This becomes the print that will go into the largest auditorium, and which will be kept after the additional prints are shipped back.