This is topic CP200 Remote Fader in forum Film Handlers' Forum at Film-Tech Forum ARCHIVE.


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Posted by Joe Redifer (Member # 3) on 08-29-2010, 12:12 AM:
 
As always, the Dolby CP200 baffles me. I need to have a remote fader and I need to have it wake up with the remote fader selected. Inside the CP200, I see two cards (cat 117) that are labeled "Remote Fader Cards" But there seems to be no jumpers to enable this like on the CP65. These cards also have trim pots and test points for whatever reason. On the back panel, I notice that there is a section that says "To Remote Faders" and has a common and 1, 2, 3 and 4 slots, which I assume means I can hook up to 4 remote faders. On the front near the volume knob, "Activate this fader" cannot be unactivated.

So help me out, Community Who Frequents Film-Tech! How do I enable remote faders on the CP200.

Bonus question: The CP65 remote fader connection has a common as well as A, B, C and D slots, etc. If I just want to hook up one remote fader, which slots do I connect it to?
 

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Posted by Sam D. Chavez (Member # 1841) on 08-29-2010, 09:45 AM:
 
The remote faders the CP200s were designed for were full function Cat. No. 204's, one per projector. Good luck finding even one of these.

If you want an auditorium fader, you can use anything with a 100K linear pot. Cat. No. 122 or 123's have this type of pot. It is assigned by a toggle switch on the Cat. No. 157.

So, it cannot be called to a remote fader, it has to be sent to it with the toggle switch. The idea was to have control of it from the booth, back when there were operators in residence.

There are ways to create a remote like a 204, but hardly worth it at this late date.
 

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Posted by Joe Redifer (Member # 3) on 08-29-2010, 10:16 AM:
 
So there is NO WAY to control the volume via a CA21 automation and a CP200? This is half the reason I am buying CA21s.
 

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Posted by Louis Bornwasser (Member # 3063) on 08-29-2010, 10:41 AM:
 
I have a couple of c/n 204's. (not in use) Louis
 

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Posted by Joe Redifer (Member # 3) on 08-29-2010, 10:53 AM:
 
Could you explain exactly what the 204 is? Is it a card that slides into the 117 slot? An actual fader? I don't need the fader itself, the CA21 will do that. I just need to be able to control the CP200. I thought it was versatile.
 

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Posted by Bill Gabel (Member # 1105) on 08-29-2010, 11:09 AM:
 
The cat.204 is a remote fader station unit. It has the A,B,C,D projector select buttons like the CP-200 front panel. "GO" button, fader control and active this fader and mute buttons.
 

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Posted by Sam D. Chavez (Member # 1841) on 08-29-2010, 11:43 AM:
 
Do you want to vary the volume via the CA21, change formats, or both.

The 200 is versatile, but mainly with regard to creating custom sound formats and handling up to 4 projectors, mag and optical.

It does not lend itself to being controlled except to selecting one of the four formats #'s dialed up on the front panel.

The Cat. No. 204 remotes were intended to follow the changeover logic to whatever projector was selected.

There are ways to get around all this, but it is major work and most have forgotten how to get the 200 to do all these special things; I know I have.
 

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Posted by Steve Guttag (Member # 268) on 08-29-2010, 11:49 AM:
 
Joe,

You want a "DF-1" (also by Pennywise) for your CA21s. It is the same box used for the CP65/55...etc with the CA21. Setting jumpers 4, 5, and 6 in the DF-1 will put it in CP200 position.

Then connect the DF-1 to the "Auditorium Fader" terminals on the Control Unit of the CP200. Switch the "Fader/Mute" card to "Auditorium Fader" (switch mounted on the front of the card, no need to remove the card) and then your CA21 will control its fader and also have the ability to have the CP200 change formats too. This is not a toggle setting like on a CP65...it is an either or...either you are on CA21 control or you are on front panel control. The mute function still works normally though with a CA21 it simulates that by having the DF-1 go to a "0" level and then restores the previous level upon an unmute

If you look at the AFI/Silver pictures in the gallery here, you will see a picture of the DF-1.

Please note, I've had some DF1s be troublesome with the CP200. It seems to be a relation between the CP200's power rails sagging too much and the DF-1 itself. It once took 3 tries to get a DF-1 that tracked with a particular CP200 (not the AFI/Silvers...they always worked).

Note...the Cat 204 is also shown in the AFI/silver pictures, if you want to see on of them.

I'm not as pessimistic about the CP200 as Sam just mentioned. I'm more in the camp (and I bet Sam would agree) that it has specific situations where it is the ideal processor (70mm magnetic, 35mm magnetic, more than 2 projectors, need a REAL flexible signal path) and in other situations where a different processor would be MUCH more suitable.

I have toyed many times with making "aftermarket" Cat 204s. They would be pretty easy. The 4" x 6" BUD "econobox" "Shadow" switches, a Pot. and some square hole punches (well just one size, actually) and some VERY simple electronics. Even the paint scheme isn't that difficult (grey and red). Like with so many things...it would take the right client and the right circumstance.

I know that due to our clients, we will need to support the CP200 for as long as possible. I wish BACP would add the Cat 517, 560 and 108C on the available new list...however, I completely understand that the volume of CP200s in "new" installations are going to be a VERY small percentage compared to the CP65. However, the places that have CP200s tend to be prestigious and they often don't have a suitable alternative. I plan to get the CP200 Surround 7.1 capable too (we'll see if it actually happens).

Steve
 

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Posted by Joe Redifer (Member # 3) on 08-29-2010, 12:05 PM:
 
I don't recall having to use a special box to control a CP65 with the CA21.

Sam, I want to control format (which already happens via any automation connection) AND volume. I dont think that the CP200 by itself is versatile, it only has the potential to be if you buy a bunch o' add-ons.

Steve what about the remote fader enable jumper on that card? Switch that as well?
 

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Posted by Sam D. Chavez (Member # 1841) on 08-29-2010, 02:15 PM:
 
The 200 has up to 4 preset formats represented by the numbers selected on the BCD switches on the 200 front panel.

These are addressable whether the 200 is in auditorium position or not.

I'm not pessimistic about the 200, I agree with Steve it has a place in certain situations.

I did a 7.1 system with it just recently.

It was designed in the 1970's so there is that. There is a pretty good supply of 517's and 560's with all the 200's coming out of service. The 108C's are a bit scarce.
 

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Posted by Joe Redifer (Member # 3) on 08-29-2010, 02:24 PM:
 
Yeah, the 70's were pretty crappy. I was born in that decade, after all.

I haven't received the CA21s yet, but would like to run the line for the remote faders in the meantime. Would I just connect it to ground and #1 on the back panel? Same question for a CP65, though it has letters and not numbers.
 

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Posted by Steve Guttag (Member # 268) on 08-29-2010, 02:57 PM:
 
Joe...if you want to control the Dolby fader on ANY of their analog processors with the CA21...you will NEED the DF1 box. On the up side, once you have it, you mount it near the Dolby processor and then let the DF1 connect to the format buttons/selectors

The "remote" fader selector on the Fader/Mute card should be left in "no remotes" if you don't have the Cat 204s. If you have it in the "remote" position, the fader will try to move to the active projector's fader...which, in your case, does not exist. The Auditorium Fader is a different animal all together...moving the switch on the front of the card selects that fader over all others. You will then use ONLY the CA21's fader.

Sam, on your Surround 7.1, did you keep 5 screen channels? I plan to keep 5 screen channels, have four surrounds and a subwoofer. My goal is to do it all "inboard" of the CP200 (with Accessory Rack).

Joe...as to versatility, the CP200 is like no other. Its biggest "flaw" is that it put the subwoofer output (then a new concept) early in the signal flow rather than carry that signal with the rest and have it output at the same stage as the rest.

What makes it so versatile is that you have many ways to get the signal in and out of it and then to manipulate it, as a new format may so dictate. Where most processors can't deal with any changes, the CP200, designed over 30 years ago, STILL rolls with the punches. It still has one of the widest signal paths (channels). If Dolby has designed the Cat 141As with 8x1 Muxes rather than 4x2s...it would be even MORE flexible.

Put the Cat 517/560s in it, update the power supply and it remains one of the best sounding processors too.
 

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Posted by Joe Redifer (Member # 3) on 08-29-2010, 03:07 PM:
 
Steve, I had 16 CA21s controlling the volume of sound processors non-serially and I have never seen a box like that. Maybe the Kinoton version just sucks.
 

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Posted by Steve Guttag (Member # 268) on 08-29-2010, 03:44 PM:
 
Joe,

The DF1 was not made for the EMK-1...but for the CA21...just how were you controlling the fader, non serially, on a CA21 without the DF1? The CA21's fader command is only serial...it can be set to control known digital processors (CP500, CP650, DFP-D3000, CSP1200), or one uses the DF-1 so the DF1 (stands for Digital Fader 1) to simulate a 100K pot for analog processors.

Given your vast knowledge on your 16 CA21s doing this miraculous thing...please explain how you hooked them up...what connected to where?

It is possible to use a 0-10VDC device with a suitable resistor to work with a Dolby processor (have done it with both AMX and Crestron)...but again something is taking the serial commands and outputting a voltage/current to simulate the 100K pot.

-Steve
 

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Posted by Joe Redifer (Member # 3) on 08-29-2010, 03:51 PM:
 
There's a trimpot inside the CA21 so you can set it to match your fader, non-serially (you may have to select serial/non-serial in the BIOS, I forget). We even did this with the CP500 until we got a special cable to control it serially. I am no longer worried about the box. I don't need it.

Maybe newer models are serial-only.
 

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Posted by Brad Miller (Member # 2) on 08-30-2010, 06:03 AM:
 
Newer CAPIO models do not have the internal trimpot, but the older models can and do mate well with the CP200 without the DF1. I will have to look at a CP200 to remember where it ties in.
 

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Posted by Scott Ribbens (Member # 180) on 08-30-2010, 06:17 AM:
 
Joe,

Since no one has responded to this:

quote:

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Bonus question: The CP65 remote fader connection has a common as well as A, B, C and D slots, etc. If I just want to hook up one remote fader, which slots do I connect it to?

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The fader is connected to A and B. C and D are for the Active Fader LED indicator.
 

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Posted by Joe Redifer (Member # 3) on 08-30-2010, 04:05 PM:
 
Thanks Scott. I looked at the CP65 installation manual but couldn't see it, but then again I was looking at it on my iPod. Once I got home I could see the "customer supplied potentiometer" wiring and it made perfect sense.

Brad, on the back of the CP200 there is remote fader 1 2 3 and 4. But I believe I need to tie into the Auditorium Fader on the upper right corner of the backplane, send and return. Not sure what the other two slots are for, probably powering an LED or something like the CP65.
 

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Posted by Steve Guttag (Member # 268) on 08-30-2010, 08:21 PM:
 
Yep...the "ind" is for the LED (at 12V rather than 24V...Dolby's norm) and the "E" terminal is also for the LED.

As for the pre Capio having the analog fader services on board, wow...why would Pennywise take such a nifty feature off the automation? The incremental cost increase for it would be trivial and having a separate box is inconvenient and raises the apparent cost of having a CA21 (EMK-1). I guess modern things just do less.
 

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Posted by Joe Redifer (Member # 3) on 08-30-2010, 09:18 PM:
 
Because digital is always better!
 

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Posted by System Notices (Member # 2357) on 09-17-2011, 08:46 PM:
 

It has been 382 days since the last post.

 

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Posted by Jim Henk (Member # 3628) on 09-17-2011, 08:46 PM:
 

quote: Louis Bornwasser

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I have a couple of c/n 204's. (not in use) Louis

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