Film-Tech Forum ARCHIVE: Being billed for replacement reel.

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Posted by Jack Ondracek (Member # 1466) on 11-06-2010, 09:03 PM:

Just wondering if any of you have run into a situation like this, and if you were able to deal with it (short of writing a check).

This Summer, I got a film with a problem on the last reel. The credits had been spliced in, cutting off part of the ending.

I called for a replacement after running the print one time. We got the new reel & sent the old one back.

Last week, I got a bill for nearly $500, covering the reel and inspection "services". They claim the reel is all scratched up and is not in playable condition. However, there is no mention of the problem I reported in the first place.

Note that this reel went through my machine one time. I'm plattered here, and ran the rest of the print over the next 5 weeks. Apparently, I somehow managed to run everything through OK, only damaging the last reel, and not the reels before, or the whole feature after.

Do the studios have you over a barrel on something like this, or is there some way to protest the issue? In nearly 40 years in the booth, I've never had anything like this happen.

Posted by Joe Redifer (Member # 3) on 11-07-2010, 12:00 AM:

Sounds like their expert inspectors inspected the incorrect reel. Or maybe that is just their standard response to all returned reels.

Posted by Brad Miller (Member # 2) on 11-07-2010, 12:00 AM:

This is obviously a Technicolor print. They apparently have standing orders to bill for ANYTHING they replace because they believe they are infallible.

Refuse to pay the bill. Stand your ground. Demand for them to re-ship you the reel so you can inspect it. Remember they screwed up, not you.

I have had this happen several times and we have never paid. If in the future one of our guys DOES damage the reel, then fine we will pay it, but when we are building onto platter reels and then laying the entire roll down on the platter, it's pretty darned impossible to damage JUST ONE REEL.

Technicolor does a great job overall, but they completely fail in this department. Their "inspectors" literally have no clue how to handle or inspect film. If the reel makes it to their visual inspection room with the little preview machines, those machines are putting out about 2fl of light. Because of this they can't even see light project-able damage, only the REALLY bad stuff. However most of their "inspections" are glancing under the light and they SERIOUSLY don't know what they are looking for. I've had a reel where the SRD track was printed into the sprocket holes and they claimed there was nothing wrong with the SRD track, but that we scratched it. Not so. Upon getting it back, visually it was flawless...and as odd as this may sound to anyone with a brain...the SRD track was STILL printed into the perforations! Wow, go figure. [Roll Eyes]

Again I cannot stress this enough, they have NO IDEA how to inspect a print there. Same goes for Deluxe.

Posted by Barry Floyd (Member # 385) on 11-07-2010, 12:44 AM:

Same thing happend to us back in 2004 with Shrek 2. There was about 1 minute in the middle of reel 2 where the soundtrack was completely missing. Got the reel replaced and they sent us a bill for the entire print. We protested it and neverpaid it.

Now anytime I get a printed circuited from somewhere else I watxh for obvious damage when building the print. If I do see it, I'll call either Deluxe or Technicolor to report it, so that way it's at least noted somewhere that we didn't do it.

Posted by Tony Bandiera Jr (Member # 2365) on 11-07-2010, 03:50 PM:

Jack, Brad is 100% correct. Tell them to pound sand, the reel was [sex]

up by the lab and it's on THEIR dime to replace it!

Way back in the late 80's I got a bad reel for Batman, it looked like someone was jerking the lower right corner of the image down on the screen. You could even see the misprinted frames with the naked eye. It was through the whole reel.

I argued with TECH for over twenty minutes, then finally threatened to pull the reel out of the print and give every customer the studio and TECHs 800 numbers. The gal finally agreed to send a replacement reel and threatened to bill us if we were wrong.

A week later after they looked at the reel I got a written apology letter. [Big Grin]

Stand your ground...

Posted by Marco Giustini (Member # 4544) on 11-07-2010, 04:05 PM:

That rings a bell... Me and my staff were probably the only cinema in the country that used to screen the movie before the first show. This of course allowed us to spot much more bad prints than a cinema that didn't quality check anything.

Unfortunately labs kept saying rubbish: that the reel wasn't faulty, that it had been damaged by us... More unfortunately, the comoany's office responsible for managing these issues, never bothered to contact me asking for more details, they used to pay the bills... [Frown]

Results: for checking our print quality and ensure out customers had the best sound and picture, I was eventually told off.

Note: No, I live in the real world and I didn't return a print because of a 2s side-scratch (even though I would have liked doing that).

Little tip: if a reel is scratched from the first run, check the leaders. If a scratch can be seen on leaders, return to the labs with no fear: this is their way to check the reel was scratched by them and not by you (assuming you're running platters!). If you can't see any scratch... they'll say you did it.

Posted by Donald Brown (Member # 5427) on 11-07-2010, 05:02 PM:

When I was running the Diamond State Drive-In Theatre, I received a number of prints, both from Technicolor and Deluxe, that were not usable, the most notable being "Super Bad" which was coated with very fine grain sand. Through all of the incidents with first run and sub-run prints, I was never presented with a bill for replacement materials or services. This relates to incidents involving the replacement of shipping reels as well.
When deficiencies were reported to either Technicolor or Deluxe, I always reported the same to my booking agent, and then relayed the details to a rep' at the respective studio.
In the final analysis, if you were not the source of the problem, I wouldn't even consider compensating for the damage.
Good luck with this!
Don Brown

Posted by Jack Ondracek (Member # 1466) on 11-09-2010, 11:17 AM:

Thanks, all!

We'll see where this goes.

-Jack

Posted by Joe Redifer (Member # 3) on 11-09-2010, 10:13 PM:

Let us know how this plays out, Jack.

Posted by Scott Balko (Member # 438) on 11-09-2010, 10:30 PM:

I had a bad sound track on reel 2 of Shrek 2 as well. They sent me a bill, so I called them and explained the problem with the track (it took about 4 attempts but the guy finally got it [Roll Eyes]

) and they credited it back and no more problems.

Posted by Louis Bornwasser (Member # 3063) on 11-10-2010, 06:45 AM:

What I think I am seeing is that the guy on the other end of the phone is either incompetent or just isn't interested. Be sure to get the NAME each time and follow with a registered letter.

The is no other way to "rat out" employees who are "not part of the solution." Louis

Posted by Brad Miller (Member # 2) on 11-10-2010, 10:54 AM:

Its worse than that Louis. Lots of people have gotten involved. They simply do not want to admit fault or incur the replacement (including overnight or same day shipping) charges.

At least now Tech is shipping for Wed deliveries as I have preached for over 15 years. This usually gives the theaters enough time to check their prints before its too late.

Posted by Kurt Zupin (Member # 2751) on 11-10-2010, 01:55 PM:

I ran into a lot of issues with Tech when I was at my other theatre. We were doing 3-4 advanced screenings a week, and I was always building and tearing down the prints. So I began to call them and find out if the print was to be picked up or staying. The first time or two I didn't get a name and ended up getting calls the next day from our booker wondering why the print wasn't shipped out or picked up. So to combat this issue, every time I called I got the first and last name of the person I was speaking to.

So the next time I got a call wondering why the print wasn't picked up, I gave my booker the name of the person I talked to and when he called them back and said so and so told my manager to hold the print for run of engagment. The rep was like no that can't be let me call you back. He would always call back an hour later and say oh I'm sorry that was my mistake you are correct. We will not be charging you for not having it ready for pick-up. Got a couple "sorry" emails as well about it.