This is topic CP-65 average lifespan? in forum Film Handlers' Forum at Film-Tech Forum ARCHIVE.


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Posted by Vincent Terranova (Member # 6098) on 04-12-2011, 11:08 AM:
 
Hi everyone,

I am a projectionist with the cinema club at RPI in Troy, NY. We currently have a CP-65 in our sound rack, and I am trying to convince the club officers that it is time to upgrade to either a CP-650 or a USL JSD-80, both due to the age and support status of the CP-65 (it was purchased in 1994) and the impending switch to digital projection.

Does anyone have an idea of how long CP-65s last in normal use before they need replacement? And can anyone give me tips on how to convince them that upgrading is a good idea?

Vince
 

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Posted by Gordon McLeod (Member # 33) on 04-12-2011, 11:20 AM:
 
I dont see any need to get rid of it we have many 65s in daily service and they are still very durable and servicable
 

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Posted by Sam D. Chavez (Member # 1841) on 04-12-2011, 11:33 AM:
 
There is only one compelling reason to upgrade from a CP65 and that is if you are eliminating film playback and only playing D-cinema.

There were perhaps 15,000 of these sold and they have many parts in common with the CP55, CP200, and CP50.

You have maybe made a wrong turn on your walk and ended up in the neighborhood bar called Film-Tech.
 

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Posted by Victor Liorentas (Member # 5272) on 04-12-2011, 12:16 PM:
 
What about a film and Dcinema combination booth using a CP 65?
 

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Posted by Ken Lackner (Member # 1002) on 04-12-2011, 12:34 PM:
 
The solution there is to add a D-A converter, such as the USL ECI-60. Cost effective, easy to install, easy to set up, and allows you to share the processor's 6-channel input with a film source such as a DA20 or DTS player as well as a D-cinema source.
 

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Posted by Sam D. Chavez (Member # 1841) on 04-12-2011, 02:00 PM:
 
There is also the USL DAX 602 DAC, priced in the high 100's. It's a one in, one out audio convertor.
 

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Posted by Vincent Terranova (Member # 6098) on 04-12-2011, 02:55 PM:
 
We don't have immediate plans to switch to D-cinema, I just mentioned it because it probably will happen at some point. Also, the club has a certain amount of money set aside for equipment upgrades that we haven't used yet this year. I figure that if we have the money anyway, we should spend it future-proofing our sound system.
 

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Posted by Tony Bandiera Jr (Member # 2365) on 04-12-2011, 03:31 PM:
 
I currently have the CP-65 (In my avatar pic) that was in UC Irvine's HIB 100 screening room..it was installed in 1997 and left powered on 24/7 until I removed it in 2009.

I am aware of several locations and a few screening rooms still using their CP-65's.

I feel it is Dolby's best processor ever, and am waiting to see if the CP-650 can match it's long-term reliability. (I doubt it.)

And if you do upgrade to a CP-650 or USL digital processor, I strongly urge you to invest in a UPS (Tripp-Lite makes a good one, I used to recommend APC but their new stuff is junk) and let the processor stay on.

What are your current speakers and amplifiers? I would look at those first if you want to upgrade anything, especially if they also date back to 1994.
 

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Posted by Vincent Terranova (Member # 6098) on 04-12-2011, 04:20 PM:
 
Our speakers are unidentified JBL; I believe they are older than the CP. For LCR, we have Ashly FTX-2001s, surround an Ashly ne2400, and subwoofer a Crown Macro-Tech 2400.
 

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Posted by Tony Bandiera Jr (Member # 2365) on 04-12-2011, 05:28 PM:
 
Ok, first order of business: S**T can those Ashly and Crown amps and get some QSC DCAs in there. There is a whole 'nuther thread about how bad those amps are!! HERE Not only do they sound like crap (or as Joe R. would say, they sound like ass) but they also are dangerous to the health of your speakers.

As for the speakers, they MIGHT be ok and adequate for digital but you'll need to get us some specific models or pictures.
 

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Posted by Ken Lackner (Member # 1002) on 04-12-2011, 07:00 PM:
 
Tony, why do you recommend keeping the CP650 powered 24/7? For that matter, why was the CP65 you spoke of powered 24/7?
 

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Posted by Steve Guttag (Member # 268) on 04-12-2011, 07:01 PM:
 
Add the Dolby DMA8 Plus to the list of items that can allow the CP65 to have a DCinema life...they also have come down in price a LOT since April.

And Tony is DEAD WRONG...the CP200 was Dolby's best processor, EVER. Everything else is said was spot on, however.

-Steve
 

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Posted by Jim Henk (Member # 3628) on 04-12-2011, 07:16 PM:
 

quote: Steve Guttag

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And Tony is DEAD WRONG...the CP200 was Dolby's best processor, EVER. Everything else is said was spot on, however.

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quote: Tony Bandiera Jr

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Ok, first order of business: S**T can those Ashly and Crown amps and get some QSC DCAs in there.

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quote: Ken Lackner

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Tony, why do you recommend keeping the CP650 powered 24/7? For that matter, why was the CP65 you spoke of powered 24/7?

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quote: Steve Guttag

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..And Tony is DEAD WRONG...the CP200 was Dolby's best processor, EVER. Everything else is said was spot on, however.

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Sorry Steve, I disagree. The CP-200 is somewhat noiser (although the upgrade cards help a lot) and the power supplies SUCK!! They are nowhere near as reliable as the CP-65's power supply. (Now as for versatility I do agree the CP-200 was the best ever.) But thanks for the other part. Rare that you ever compliment me.

quote:

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Oh god, this is going to be fun. DING! Round one!

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Posted by Scott Norwood (Member # 30) on 04-12-2011, 07:53 PM:
 
If you get a spare preamp card (if you don't already have one), set it up properly, and have operators who know how to swap it out in case of trouble, you will always be able to have sound, even if you have to run in bypass mode. This should at least calm any fears of impending failure. Cost should be in the $200-300 range, or maybe less if you buy used.

Other than that, I'd suggest getting a good technician (hopefully you already have someone you use regularly) to come in and do a full service call (A-chain, B-chain, and addressing any outstanding issues). Then, ask him what you could do to improve your presentation quality for $0 (yes, zero), $100, $1000, $10000, etc. He should be able to give some good suggestions based on your existing setup.
 

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Posted by Louis Bornwasser (Member # 3063) on 04-12-2011, 08:29 PM:
 
I am running THOUSANDS of Ashly FTX-2001's.

I have lost only 4 modules in 16 years in an 8 plex with 40 amps.

We understand them, have a lot of experience with them, repair them. I guess there must be varying degrees if technical ability loose out there.

Definately no more junk than the CP-65 under discussion. Louis
 

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Posted by Vincent Terranova (Member # 6098) on 04-12-2011, 10:25 PM:
 
Tony and Randy, I understand your reasons to do a complete amp replacement; however, our club budget is very limited, and since we have "working" amps right now, the executive board of the student union is unlikely to approve the funds for their replacement (this would be MUCH more than our small repair budget).

And yes, we do have a technician that visits once a year. I will try to be there the next time he visits, and ask about presentation quality.

Thanks guys for all your suggestions; it's great to get a second opinion from knowledgeable people.

Vince
 

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Posted by Mike Frese (Member # 4361) on 04-12-2011, 10:37 PM:
 
Speaking of CP650s: I have noticed a significant dropping of prices on them (used). Is that because the CP750 is being used on digital conversions quite a bit? It is my understanding that these are significantly cheaper than the CP650.
 

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Posted by Bobby Henderson (Member # 840) on 04-12-2011, 10:59 PM:
 

quote: Victor Liorentas

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What about a film and Dcinema combination booth using a CP 65?

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Screen #5 at the Carmike 8 here in Lawton has a 35mm & D-Cinema setup using a Dolby CP-65. It's a former THX house. Screen #4 has a CP-65 but is digital projection only.
 

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Posted by Sam D. Chavez (Member # 1841) on 04-12-2011, 11:00 PM:
 
Mike,

Last year at this time there were no used 650's on the market to speak of.

This year they are coming out in pretty large numbers and being replaced by 750's, USL JSD 100's and others that only do D-Cinema inputs and do 8 or more channels with ease.

So price comes down.
 

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Posted by Randy Stankey (Member # 64) on 04-12-2011, 11:03 PM:
 
I absolutely understand your point.

But my boss makes this guy look like a Boy Scout:


While there might be better cinema processors, the one you have now is serviceable and, barring any mishaps should stay serviceable for the foreseeable future. It might be nice to replace it but it's not 100% necessary.

I just bought a used CP650. It cost approx. $6,000 not including the Dolby Digital penthouse reader.

I also just bought three brand new QSC amplifiers. They cost approx. $800 apiece.

I don't know a lot about your theater's setup but you should be able to buy new amps for a typical L/C/R/S2 arrangement for somewhere in the neighborhood of $3,000.

So, if your school won't buy you $3,000 worth of amps, they're certainly not going to buy you $6,000 worth of sound processor. However, if you can get one or the other, you'll have a much better chance of getting the $3,000 expenditure approved than the $6,000 expenditure.

Which expenditure do you think will do you the most good? I think your processor is good. Not the best in the world but it's certainly capable of producing good sound if you tune it up right. However, the best processor in the world isn't going to do a bit of good if you have crummy amps.

In your case, running a CP650 through old amplifiers would be like hanging a crystal chandelier in an outhouse.

Furthermore, your upgrade path is better.
Replace the amps and do a complete realignment of the system. Start at the speakers and re-aim them and check the wiring and placement. Do a complete A-Chain and a B-Chain.
Right there, you're going to notice an improvement. It is from this point where you will launch your assault on the bosses go get the upgrades you want.

You can add a DMA8 or other digital media adapter to your existing system for about $3,000. You can add Dolby Digital film sound for a couple-few thousand if you want. Properly planned all of these things can be added to your existing Dolby Processor.

Then, if lightning strikes, the clouds part, the angels trumpet from on high and, somehow, you get approval, you can get your CP650 and your system will be complete.

If you walked into the office, right now, and said you needed $12,000 to upgrade the sound system your boss/adviser would turn you down flat.

However, if you walked into the office and asked for $500 this week and $500 next week, you've got a much better chance. If you could nickel and dime your boss for $500 per week for a whole year you'd have $26,000 and he probably wouldn't notice.

Ask for half that in one lump sum and you'll probably get laughed out of the office.

This is why I recommend replacing the amplifiers first.
 

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Posted by Ken Lackner (Member # 1002) on 04-13-2011, 09:28 AM:
 
Sam,

Why would someone replace a CP650 with a CP750 or JSD100? The film formats are no longer needed in a digital-only setup, but wouldn't a Cat 790 card for the 650 to allow it to decode AES be a lot cheaper than a new processor?
 

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Posted by Sam D. Chavez (Member # 1841) on 04-13-2011, 03:12 PM:
 
Ken,

Logic sometimes has nothing to do with it as you well know working in the same industry as the rest of us.

Cinemark is replacing everything Dolby with the JSD100 as a matter of course.

Regal is replacing a lot of 65's with JSD-80 and maybe 100's, and QSC DCP's; I've lost track.

Has mostly to do with implementing 7.1 and 9.1, 11.1..and maybe a little to do with the DCI financing.

Whatever, it's happening.
 

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Posted by Pete Naples (Member # 761) on 04-13-2011, 04:52 PM:
 
If you have an early CP650 you've only 1 digital input, so it's no good. If you haven't got the EX board installed then it just about makes financial sense to replace it with a CP750, JSD100 etc. Especially as Sam pointed out, in this age of VPF deals etc.
 

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Posted by Steve Guttag (Member # 268) on 04-13-2011, 05:43 PM:
 
Its AC3 input is a bit crippled too...if you get a 2/0 encoding...it will not do a "pro-logic" decode. So, if you don't have film, the CP650 makes little sense unless you had it when you had film and now are playing DCinema and don't need alternative content. That said, if you add a DMA8 Plus to the system coming in on the 6-channel input...then the CP650 can do DCinema, and alternative content with minimal cost (less than a CP750 or JSD100).

-Steve
 

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Posted by Tony Bandiera Jr (Member # 2365) on 04-13-2011, 10:31 PM:
 
Steve, is the AC-3 problem only in the earlier units or has Dolby updated that for current units?
 

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Posted by Steve Guttag (Member # 268) on 04-14-2011, 12:03 AM:
 
To the best of my knowledge, the CP650 still does not do any pro-logic decoding of AC3 2/0 material.

-Steve
 

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Posted by Mike Frese (Member # 4361) on 04-18-2011, 09:47 PM:
 

quote: Sam D. Chavez

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Mike,

Last year at this time there were no used 650's on the market to speak of.

This year they are coming out in pretty large numbers and being replaced by 750's, USL JSD 100's and others that only do D-Cinema inputs and do 8 or more channels with ease.

So price comes down.

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quote: Louis Bornwasser

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I am running THOUSANDS of Ashly FTX-2001's.

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