Film-Tech Forum ARCHIVE: Technicolor 3D issues

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Posted by Christopher Schaffner (Member # 6132) on 05-06-2011, 11:38 PM:

Got a good one for you guys this time..
OK, so, we have 2 Xetron XHC35s both with identical Centry MSA projectors. both can run 3D, one of them (we'll call it #4) has always had issues with switching between 3D and 2D. the other one (#5) has no problems at all switching between the two.
Today we were supposed to run the 3d Thor in #4, but we couldnt get the 3D looking right. (one side is fine, the other is not).
At first we thought it was the film, so we put the 3D Hoodwinked that 5 was running into 4, stayed with the proj so not the film. We switched the lenses, problem stayed on 4. We tried re-aligning the bulb...no change. I am out of ideas. Any help would be appreciated.
Oh, I almost forgot to mention, These use Technicolor 3D lenses.
and #4 was running Fast Five before it went back to 3D. [Confused]

One side looks normal, the other has dark bars on top and bottom and is slightly out of focus. which is noticeable with, and without 3D glasses on.

Posted by Monte L Fullmer (Member # 2797) on 05-07-2011, 12:59 AM:

(..dang, them are old consoles...circa 1983'ish - uses that old spider support for the anode of the bulb) Wonder if the reflector is warped ....

Posted by Christopher Schaffner (Member # 6132) on 05-07-2011, 01:18 AM:

Monte, We have ones even older than that :] We have a pair of Peerless Magnarcs with Simplex XLs on them.
Wouldn't a warped reflector effect both 3D and standard?
the 3D on this one was fine before we switched it back to 2D. [Confused]

Posted by Monte L Fullmer (Member # 2797) on 05-07-2011, 03:04 AM:

(..Nothing wrong with Peerless/XL w/Magnetic setups - ran that set for years at a big single house for almost 15 years...before it closed down)

Tech3D lenses have to be totall calibrated to work as they should - wonder if something just got knocked out of alignment to where you need tha tech back to tune it in again ... sorry, not familar with Tech3D setup, but just throwing ideas to help out ..

But, sinc you're using Centurys, how's the trap and gate issue -are the bands wearing evenly, or you got one hanging up on the film to tweak it a bit? Is the lens carriage eccentric assembly still locked into place, or did it get tweaked a bit?

Posted by Louis Bornwasser (Member # 3063) on 05-07-2011, 09:15 AM:

Your Tech3D technician should have shown you how to switch back and forth, schooled you in it and then tested you thoroughly. That is why he was paid.

He must have done a "hit and run." Call him back to complete the job for which he was paid. I would not expect him to charge you. Louis

Posted by Gordon McLeod (Member # 33) on 05-07-2011, 09:20 AM:

bars on the top and bottom makes me think you have the wrong apperture plate in

Posted by Christopher Schaffner (Member # 6132) on 05-07-2011, 02:12 PM:

Monte, I do not believe it is the actual lens that is the issue, because even if it has the lens from the other projector in it, it still has the problem. Doesn't seem like there are any problems with the trap & gates. I shall check the eccentric when I go in tonight.

Louis, This theater had its two 3D auditoriums set-up long before I became a projectionist there, so I have no idea what the tech told them to do.

Gordon, I thought about that too. It'll still do it even with no aperture plate in.

Posted by Jim Cassedy (Member # 4115) on 05-07-2011, 03:43 PM:

First of all, I think for future reference in finding this
topic in the future, it should be renamed "TECHNICOLOR 3D Issues"

I've had a similar "bar" or "shadow" problem last year.

If you've got what looks like a dark bar or shadow at the
top or bottom or the screen:

>See if it goes away or becomes more or less pronounced
when you close one eye or the other. (With glasses on!) OR:

>Does it go away if you remove the auxiliary port masking,
or if you pull the aperture plate out??

If so, I've found the best way to deal with this is to "start
from scratch" - -

First: >REMOVE THE AUXILLARY PORT MASKING< (really!)

1) Run the Techniolor test loop. Make sure you're using the
3D aperture plate.

2) Adjust the framing carefully, I've found that even though the
picture appears to be framed correctly, if you "rack the framing knob"
up & down a bit, you will begin to see a bit of a shadow at
either the top or the bottom of the screen as U turn the knob.

You can see it without the glasses, but the best way is to
put the glasses on and alternately open & close each eye.
It will either go away entirely or be less pronounced on one eye.

You should find a point at which there is NO shadow when
looking with either eye.

This is the 'correct' framing position. I've marked my
framing knob with a horizontal line for reference at
this spot.

At this point, you may have to adjust your projector pedistal
elevation or screen masking to re-center the image on screen.

Now, re-install your auxillary port masking. CAREFULLY-
If it's not aligned right or perfectly flat against the glass
it will create a shadow effect again.

That should take care of your problem, assuming there are
no other issues with your Technicolor lens!

Good luck!

> Did everyone get the new Techniclor 3D logo?
Mine was enclosed with the screen-ads. The 3D
effect looks great if you've got everything aligned right!

Posted by Tom Wienholt (Member # 1510) on 05-07-2011, 06:02 PM:

I got the new tech 3d logo... Also think it looks great!

Posted by Mark Gulbrandsen (Member # 72) on 05-07-2011, 07:30 PM:

Yes, Gord is correct. The dark bars indicate an under-filed aperature plate top and bottom. Pull the plate out while the projector is on screen and see if the bars go away...

Mark

Posted by Christopher Schaffner (Member # 6132) on 05-08-2011, 10:21 PM:

The dark bars were still there even with the ap. Plate out and all masking removed. And it was only doing it on one eyes image(if that make since). I did notice today that the trap was loose, could that cause one side to be dark? (like if you close your right eye, its bright, if you close your left eye its dark.)

Posted by Victor Liorentas (Member # 5272) on 05-08-2011, 11:21 PM:

Sounds like your light is focused to high or low making one eye darker.

Posted by Christopher Schaffner (Member # 6132) on 05-09-2011, 03:12 AM:

SOLVED :]
Okay, here is what we did.
I don't know how many of you have ever ran a Xetron XHC35, but this is a relatively narrow(front to back) console, so the bulb cant quite be perfectly aligned.
Well, I forgot, as well as our other techs, that the bulb in this proj was recently replaced, and aligned for a 2D! show. well for 3D with this console, you apparently have to align the bulb a special way? so we tried aligning it, while it was running the T3D focus/frame alignment loop, this way we were able to get both pictures the same brightness.
Now about the bars across the top and bottom on one side..
for some reason, the actual tilt of the proj was causing these lines [Confused]

after that was fixed we reinstalled all the masking and ran the show. everything looked perfect! :]

Posted by Monte L Fullmer (Member # 2797) on 05-09-2011, 10:16 AM:

Congrats! I ran cruddy Xetron stuff with MANN Theatres in the late 70 to late 80's and I worked in a 4plex with these consoles for 8 years - they weren't too bad to play with.

But just hated doing bulb changes in them due to that danged spider anode support and those very small allen set screws to lock down the support on the bulb since the spider was also the Positive connection. And you made sure that those allen set screw are down very tight, otherwise, you'll never get them loose after they'd arc in the spider on the anode pin of the bulb.

Plus, them spiders love to get tweaked in the guides that are mounted around the reflector and would bust bulbs when the bulb couldn't expand. Thus, on every bulb change, I made sure that the spider can easily slide back and forth.

We also had those Cinemeccanica POS amplifier in that console since the projectors were V-5's

Posted by Mark Gulbrandsen (Member # 72) on 05-09-2011, 02:33 PM:

Still doesn't sound coprrect to me. Why would there be a 2-D and a 3-D setting for the lampenhousen? SThere shouldn't be really although there may be a flat-scope setting. I suggest getting in yet a different tech to look at it because something sounds amuck in the projector to lamphouse or bulb to lamphouse alignment.

Mark

Posted by Gordon McLeod (Member # 33) on 05-09-2011, 04:26 PM:

I havent had many issues with xetrons having alignment issues like you describe sounds like something is wrong from day one

Posted by Louis Bornwasser (Member # 3063) on 05-09-2011, 08:43 PM:

Mark is right. Proper set up for Tech 3D is for scope to be perfect (alignment, etc.). You then move on to the 3D.

Sounds like you have 2 different set ups there, so procedure was not followed.

Nearest Tech 3D to you is Campbellsville, KY or Georgetown, KY. Louis

Posted by Christopher Schaffner (Member # 6132) on 05-10-2011, 03:13 AM:

Mark. Your right, Its seems pretty stupid to me why this lamphouse is like this. our other XHC has no issues at all. maybe the bulb was mounted incorrectly or something.