Film-Tech Forum ARCHIVE: 16mm Film Transfer

This is topic 16mm Film Transfer in forum Film Handlers' Forum at Film-Tech Forum ARCHIVE.

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Posted by Randy Stankey (Member # 64) on 05-30-2011, 12:02 PM:

I came into possession of about a dozen reels of 16mm film. (400 ft.)

Some of it is commercial stuff but 6 of them are home/family vacation stuff taken with a Bolex camera.

The commercial stuff is only of mild interest. Home stuff is priority.
If the home stuff is recovered, the commercial stuff could simply be stored and kept safe.

Looking to get the films transferred to video and/or preserved.

Took the film to work and did first level triage. Virtually all of the home movies are in decent shape. All but one are on Kodachrome. One is B/W.

The Kodachrome is vintage 1950's on metal reels in metal cans.
There is mild vinegar smell but no noticeable shrinking or damage.
No noticeable liquid and only minor degradation.
The color still looks good.
The film isn't brittle but I was able to tear off a bit of the tail/leader fairly easily.
The film is still flexible enough to wind smoothly on reels.

The one B/W is shrinking and has a strong, sweet chemical smell.

All the reels of interest are on aluminum reels except for one. It was on a steel reel which had started to rust. I spooled that one off to a plastic core.

Everything is back in the cans and in a metal storage box.

Now, it's time to decide what to do...

It would be nice to project the film but I will delay that decision till I have more information. I have a pair of Elmo (slot loading) 16mm projectors but I am concerned that the stress of projection will damage the film. Some of the film has been spliced and one or two of them have come apart.

First course of action, I think, would be to get the film transferred to video.

Where is a good place to get the transfer done?
Cost is a factor.

Would like to have the results in a format that I can edit at home. Transfer to DVD or Blu-Ray might be of interest but I have a full Final Cut Studio setup. I can edit and burn DVDs or Blu-Rays myself. I don't need somebody else to do that work for me when I can do it myself.

Any advice or ideas?

T.I.A! [Smile]

Posted by Steve Guttag (Member # 268) on 05-30-2011, 01:25 PM:

Colorlab in Rockville, MD. They are great and specialize in 16mm.

http://www.colorlab.com/ (they also have a NYC office).

-Steve

Posted by Robert E. Allen (Member # 1351) on 05-30-2011, 03:27 PM:

Believe it or not your local Wallgreen store has a lab that will do it for you. They transfer and can add titles but they do not edit. My son, who is a Wallgreen manager, had six 400 ft reels of 16mm transferred to DVD for me.

Posted by Randy Stankey (Member # 64) on 05-30-2011, 04:49 PM:

DVD limits out to 720x480 pixels. 16mm film has much more resolution than that.

Blu-Ray is compressed. If I want to convert the video to any given size I have to rip it, uncompress it, frame rate convert it then recompress at a given size.

I was reading Color Lab's website. They'll write the data in the codec of your choice onto a hard drive which you supply then send it back to you.

$300/hr. for professional telecine work isn't a bad price.

There are six reels at 400 ft. each. That comes out at about 10 minutes per reel. Right? Most reels are only 3/4 full. So figure 45 minutes of film.

So a good ballpark figure would be $250 to $350, more or less. Am I right?

I might be willing to spend about that much money.

The film was taken by my wife's grandfather who died before she was born. I think she's interested in seeing what's on there.

All but one of the reels is on Kodachrome stock and it's in decent condition. If kept indoors where it's cool and dry I think it will keep long enough for us to decide.

Posted by Steve Guttag (Member # 268) on 05-30-2011, 07:30 PM:

Colorlab's work is top notch and it isn't just going to be "Duplicated" they use good stuff and are quality oriented. I'd give them a call. They are real good people.

-Steve

Posted by Scott Norwood (Member # 30) on 05-30-2011, 08:40 PM:

From what I have seen of their 16mm lab work, I can also recommend Colorlab as a place that cares about quality. (I have not seen their video work.)

Additionally, I can recommend Magno Sound & Video in NYC. They have done film transfers for me in the past and have been good to work with.

Bono Film in northern Virginia also has a good reputation. I have not dealt with them personally, but have been impressed with their lab work before they closed down their film lab and started to concentration on video services.

Forum member Jeff Joseph has some place on the west coast that he likes; you might want to check with him and get their contact information as well.

If the material is of any value, I don't recommend taking it to a drugstore-type service. They probably are using film-chain equipment instead of more modern equipment and also probably don't know how to properly handle archival film. It's a factory operation for them, not a custom job.

I don't know the current recommended practice, but I would be inclined to go with a color-corrected transfer to HDCAM, maybe with a copy on hard disk or DVD/Blu-Ray if the video copy is to be the long-term storage medium for the material (which it probably is, if the film is going vinegar). If the material is of extreme value, a 16mm interpositive and print could be made on polyester stock, which would preserve it for decades to come. (It's not cheap...think $1.50/foot and up. On the other hand, film is archival and videotape is not.)

Note, too, that telecine "cost per hour" is cost per hour of work, not hour of film running time. You can expect to pay for maybe twice the running time for a simple transfer or many more times for a fully color-corrected transfer. You pretty much get what you pay for.

Posted by Jack Theakston (Member # 4484) on 05-30-2011, 09:55 PM:

Most digital tape formats have compression of some form, although it's usually not as severe as MPEG compression.

You'll probably want to do the transfer in HD, but if you're looking to do a formal preservation, a scan would be optimal, but more expensive, obviously.

Posted by Paul Mayer (Member # 355) on 05-30-2011, 10:20 PM:

One of the west coast ones I can recommend is Modern VideoFilm Inc in Burbank. They did a 3-minute silent 16mm one-light pass to D2 tape for me about a dozen years ago. Since it was such a short and simple one-light job, it didn't cost that much and the quality was up there with any film-to-video work I've ever worked with.

Modern VideoFilm Inc

Posted by David M. Leugers (Member # 2968) on 05-31-2011, 12:06 AM:

Randy, do you have a set up that can handle editing HD video? You may want to check that out if you are not sure. Having the films transferred to a format you can not effectively edit would be a major drawback it seems.

Posted by Richard Orsak (Member # 4472) on 05-31-2011, 12:14 AM:

High Quality, and hands down very high end at a reasonable cost! Tons of work with archival prints. Many options available including high-def and wetgate.

Cinepost

Posted by Sean Weitzel (Member # 244) on 05-31-2011, 01:01 AM:

I would think that the film could quite readily pass through a projector. Maybe give it a rubdown of filmguard between a set of rewinds beforehand to prevent chattering. I have filmguarded all of my families Kodachrome home movies without any negative effects. This was many moons ago when filmguard was first on the market. They play flawlessly to this day. Your wife would probably be stunned to see the films as they were meant to be shown.

Posted by Gordon McLeod (Member # 33) on 06-02-2011, 08:04 AM:

If the facility that does the transfer uses a flying spot scanner like the Bauch or the Rank Ursa Gold the print must have no film guard or other liquid on them as it will cause slippage on the capstain

Posted by Randy Stankey (Member # 64) on 06-02-2011, 08:36 AM:

I have not put anything on the film. Don't intend to put anything on the film until after it has been transferred, if I use FG at all. Yes, FG will keep the film clean, lubricated and free from vinegar problems but, as Gordon says, it can gum up the works if it is not used carefully.

FilmGuard is great for daily operation but, when it comes to archival and preservation issues, it is best to wait.

Most of the film, primarily the Kodachrome stuff, probably is projectable right now. I have considered projecting some of it just to show Melanie. However, we're right back to the archival/preservation issue. One false move and I could damage or destroy irreplaceable film.

I have a pair of Elmo 16mm projectors. Don't know the model but they are the slot loading kind. As far as I know they are fairly easy on film but the stress of projection could cause some of the splices to come loose. In fact, while winding the film for inspection, a couple of them have come loose.

Until I have a 16mm splicer at hand, I'm not going to take the risk of projecting the film.

I'm still looking at options and deciding on the best course of action. Most of the film is in "okay" condition and it's being kept inside where temperatures are relatively stable. It can keep for a little while longer while I decide what to do.

I have a good computer to edit and prepare video with. It's an 8-core Mac Pro and it's got Final Cut Studio. There's lots of memory (6 GB) and lots of hard drive. (Over 2 TB.) I can handle virtually any codec. ProRes 4:2:2 is probably a good compromise for my purposes but one of the DV codecs might also be doable.

I think the final solution will be to have the film cleaned and scanned then the video transferred to a hard drive. I'll edit and make a computer viewable version and a DVD/Blu-Ray version. Then I'll make two backup copies of the disk and store them away along with the hard drive that holds the original video.

After all that, I'll decide whether FilmGuard is a good thing to do and, finally, I'll store the film away for posterity. That way, we'll have viewable versions of the content, backups of that plus the original material in case it's ever needed.

Posted by David E. Nedrow (Member # 4981) on 06-02-2011, 01:59 PM:

You could also check out Pro8mm. They do really good work, and can do M-2 HD scans, or Y-Front (no snickers from the British crowd) SD.

Pro8mm Store

-David