Film-Tech Forum ARCHIVE: Kinoton FP30 stopping

This is topic Kinoton FP30 stopping in forum Film Handlers' Forum at Film-Tech Forum ARCHIVE.

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Posted by Sally Ann Burgess (Member # 4746) on 09-07-2011, 06:37 AM:

It started when the projector stopped while the film was on. The film break alarm didn't go off. Now, every other show, the projector starts up, then stops, the film break alarm goes on then off then on full. I have swapped the film break relays with another projector's but the problem persisted. Today I took out the two IA6 motor start relays and put two spares in (used)...and now the projector as well as stopping, has had the dowser go up during the film! Has anyone else had this problem? I can only think now it must be a dodgy film break microswitch?

Posted by Ian Freer (Member # 1940) on 09-07-2011, 07:12 AM:

Hi Sally

Is this an older FP30A with the Red Roller or a newer FP30D with the IR film detector?

Ian

Posted by Sally Ann Burgess (Member # 4746) on 09-07-2011, 08:34 AM:

It's an FP30D, and there are no red rollers. But the film break knob is red. (the part I pull out when threading)

Posted by Steve Guttag (Member # 268) on 09-07-2011, 11:30 AM:

He meant the Red knob. It is a little hard to diagnose without knowing the specifics of the vintage.

The switch that the failsafe roller connects to is a suspect and so is the motor holding relay (Re2 in modern projectors). A lesser suspect and one that you said you changed was Re1. Don't forget about the platter either...if you have a Kinoton platter (or others can do it too)...there is a film break circuit/wrap detector circuit that can also shut the projector off.

-Steve

Posted by Tony Bandiera Jr (Member # 2365) on 09-07-2011, 10:29 PM:

Steve is on the right track...replace BOTH of those relays with new ones, not used, especially the ones from Kinoton.

Those relays are especially dodgy, a serious flaw on an otherwise great machine.

I just bought a full set to replace the ones in one of the UC Irvine HIB100 projectors, I got the NTE equivalents, they were about $7 each. I'll try to find the paperwork and get you the part number.

If you have a good electronics store near you (NOT FRYS or Radio Shack) they can cross reference one of the originals.

Oh, and I disabled those hideous red roller film breaks by loosening the bracket and swinging the reed switch out of the way.

Posted by John Wilson (Member # 269) on 09-07-2011, 10:33 PM:

My money's on the switch.

Bypass the switch for now to make sure you don't stop mid show. Of course, at the end of the film you're going to have to turn the motor off yourself or change the automation to have it do the job. The switches are readily available.

Posted by Sally Ann Burgess (Member # 4746) on 09-08-2011, 02:09 AM:

Thanks guys

I have replaced the dowser relay now just to eliminate those relays as the cause too but still the projector kept shutting down. When I restarted I pulled the film break towards me a bit more than it was already, and it was fine. I have noticed though that the red knob alun screw in the centre is extremely loose. No matter how many times I turn it, it isn't tightening up.
In order to bypass the film break, would I just have to disconnect the microswitch at the back...stupid question I guess but I've never done it.

Posted by Jean-Marc Toussaint (Member # 4784) on 09-08-2011, 05:21 AM:

I've done it on one of my machines, no big deal. It's a very simple job. We're not using the feed and take-up on the projector. In case of film break, the transport system (vertical tower) has its own failsafe system that will shut everything down.

Posted by Sally Ann Burgess (Member # 4746) on 09-08-2011, 07:11 PM:

Well one of the small film break microswitch screws at the back of the projector was a bit loose so I tightened that up. The next show was fine, I have a spare microswitch on standby...not that my soldering skills are too flash!!

Posted by Jarret Chessell (Member # 5077) on 09-09-2011, 10:13 PM:

Do you have a device in there like a motor controller (variable speed controller). I've had similar issues with a motor just winding down during a show for no apparent reason.