Film-Tech Forum ARCHIVE: Print arrives wrapped in Saran wrap

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Posted by Fred L West (Member # 6038) on 03-02-2012, 08:07 AM:

Our print for the weekend arrived with reel one on a complete reel with the rest having just the center of a reel and wrapped in Saran wrap. This is a new never shown print with some with tail out and other head out. I had to take apart spare reel and carefully unwrap print and fit into center peace without it falling apart. All went well but just never seen or heard of such a thing? Very new to all this with just 2 years in the booth, is this common.

Fred

Posted by Mitchell Dvoskin (Member # 751) on 03-02-2012, 08:25 AM:

The plastic center is called a "core". This is the way reels come from the lab, and the way archives store prints.

If this was a commercial release, you should call the distributor and have them send you reels so that you can break down the print at the end of the run. Many independent/foreign films come on cores.

Your theatre should buy a metal 2K split reel, not to be confused with those plastic snap together reel side flanges often misnamed a split reel. The real metal split reels screw together and are designed for easy winding film on and off of cores.

Posted by Robert E. Allen (Member # 1351) on 03-02-2012, 12:55 PM:

I never experienced that in my 25 years in the booth Fred. Mitch gave you some good advise. Thanks again for the tour of your place. Nice to hear from you.

Posted by David Buckley (Member # 2600) on 03-02-2012, 04:05 PM:

I've never seen a film arrive on reels, always on cores.

Does this mean that in the USA from when the film leaves the lab on cores, to when it arrives at your booth on reels that there is a processing step somewhere where films get transferred from cores to reels?

Posted by Paul Mayer (Member # 355) on 03-02-2012, 04:10 PM:

Common practice in the US is to ship release prints on reels instead of cores. I assume the transfer from lab cores to reels is done at the various depots.

Posted by Bruce Hansen (Member # 281) on 03-02-2012, 04:20 PM:

The reel "sides" are snapped on to the core at the depots. The "reels" that were just on cores, and rapped with plastic sound like they care new reels from the lab.

Posted by Ian Parfrey (Member # 5122) on 03-02-2012, 04:40 PM:

For many years now in Australia, new prints have been delivered wrapped in heat-shrunk plastic film and on cores in boxes.

There is nothing wrong with this method, it saves on shipping and, as the print should never be used unless on house spools, eliminates the issue of 'shipping damaged' spools.

Posted by Monte L Fullmer (Member # 2797) on 03-02-2012, 04:45 PM:

True, it was pretty standard that most theatres had a 'split reel' for such print arrivals when arrived on cores only...

Posted by Graham Ritchie (Member # 5226) on 03-02-2012, 04:55 PM:

In the twelve years of projecting and around 800 films I have only come across a handfull of prints ever arriving on reels. New prints also come in cores and sealed where as others just on the cores.

As Ian has said the cost of frieght comes into it as well so a good split reel is a must.

Never a problem with them arriving this way....works fine.

Graham.

Posted by Jock Blakley (Member # 6552) on 03-02-2012, 05:07 PM:

Even rep prints in mainstream distribution down under come on cores, stacked in cardboard boxes.

Makes shipping easy but I shudder to think of a courier dropping one in a puddle one day because it does expose the films to shipping damage. The plastic wrap disappears after the first screening and the plastic cans that they used to come in went west about 10 years ago except for product that's come from a handful of international labs.

And of course you get booth-monkeys who don't put the cardboard separators back between the stacked spools...

In fact, excluding the odd 70mm that nobody's remembered to junk, I can only think of three prints circulated on reels in trunks by Deluxe Media Logistics.

Posted by Graham Ritchie (Member # 5226) on 03-02-2012, 05:53 PM:

In fact its so unusual to have a film arrive in reels I took a photo of one.

Poor old "Lawrence of Arabia" this print had seen better days, however I should add "Doctor Zhivago" arrived soon after this and the print is not "to bad" after screeing Doctor Zhivago we sent it of to Aussie to live. [Smile]

Graham.

Posted by Jock Blakley (Member # 6552) on 03-02-2012, 06:16 PM:

The Australian print of Lawrence is trashed and gets about in four cardboard boxes. Can't ever forgive Columbia for sending the Australian 70mm print to Korea and letting them subtitle it.

A pity doubly because they're the sort of reels we prefer to see [Razz]

By the way, Graham, was Doctor Zhivago the Chapel Distribution print?

Posted by Victor Liorentas (Member # 5272) on 03-02-2012, 06:22 PM:

One good thing about getting a new film on cores wrapped in plastic is the film stands a greater chance of being super clean.

Often the old film cans are filthy with decades old dust and cardboard debris which jumps all over fresh new film.

Posted by Brian Guckian (Member # 1678) on 03-02-2012, 06:59 PM:

quote: Jock Blakley
The plastic wrap disappears after the first screening and the plastic cans that they used to come in went west about 10 years ago except for product that's come from a handful of international labs.

And of course you get booth-monkeys who don't put the cardboard separators back between the stacked spools...

Really sorry to learn of this - getting rid of cans is really poor practice and is guaranteed to dramatically shorten print life. I know prints are often shipped from the Lab to the Distributor shrink-wrapped in plastic with cardboard separators - but that's only because the shrink wrap supports the spooled film rolls, and this method is only supposed to be used for the initial Lab-to-Distributor shipment (I know this because a Print Manager told me). Once the shrink-wrap is removed, the spooled rolls must be transferred to cans for subsequent shipping to theatres.

Cardboard separators not only cannot protect the film, but offer very little mechanical support in transit - one shudders to think what condition prints are in where shipped from one theatre to another.

By way of contrast, there are the high-quality cans and cases that e.g. Deluxe London use - no reason why you shouldn't receive prints exactly the same way.

Posted by Graham Ritchie (Member # 5226) on 03-02-2012, 08:48 PM:

Jock

I think the local NZ distributor for the David Lean films was Cinevista however he was tied up with Sony Pictures.

We were asked to dispatch "Doctor Zhivago" to Melbourne. I cant remember the address the film went to. The records were at the cinema when we closed down after 20 years for good last November, "make way for more shops" we did run the David Lean films Sept-Oct just before we closed.

Of the four David Lean films, Doctor Zhivago although far from being perfect was ok. I did ask why new prints were not made with the film distributor, his reply was that the demand was such it was not financially worth it, which is a pity.

Jock that print could be still in Melbourne somewhere and would be worth getting. I last watched this film when I was young back in the 60s and watching again was a real joy....twice [Smile]

I think this is where only the "look" of a film presentation wins out.

here is a screen shot taken from the projection room might give you an idea of its condition

Graham.

Posted by Jock Blakley (Member # 6552) on 03-03-2012, 07:06 AM:

It is indeed a wonderful show, Graham. Chapel Distribution have, or at least had, the Australian rights for a while and did get a new print of Zhivago about ten years ago now. As I recall it had DTS.

We haven't shown it in quite some time... I suppose I could find out considering that the theatre I work for owns them [Razz]

Brian: regrettably this industry is all about the dollar now and that bug has bitten very strongly here. All of our prints are either on reels in trunks or in plastic or metal cans in boxes - but the mainstream releases (that is, anything handled by Deluxe Media Logistics) are unprotected cores thrown into boxes.

Occasionally we get a print from a foreign lab that has been issued with and has kept its cans - such was the case with the print we got of THE KING'S SPEECH that came from Deluxe London - but that is the exception.

You can imagine my horror when an IB print of APOCALYPSE NOW REDUX turned up on unprotected cores in lovely new boxes - just begging to get flattened or soaked or any number of other horrors that can befall a priceless and irreplaceable print.

Posted by Mitchell Dvoskin (Member # 751) on 03-03-2012, 09:41 AM:

In the USA, release prints from the major studios and most independents have always arrived on reels. They come from the lab on cores, and are transferred to reels at the depot. Years ago, they actually wound the film onto real reels, either metal or plastic. For the last 20 years or so, they have been snapping on cheap plastic side flanges to the core, eliminating the need to wind the film.

Because of this, many if not most theatres here do not have split reels, they have never needed them.

Posted by Fred L West (Member # 6038) on 03-03-2012, 11:01 AM:

One thing nice about the print being wrapped is how clean it is, I don't get many new prints. Being second run house I mostly get prints that have been beaten to death and have masking tape everywhere which I won't miss once digital. I received a new print at the break a few months ago with pad lock on one of the cans that I could not get the combo to until late afternoon thursday once opened it was covered with cardboard dust from those beat up cans. The studio's taking about how they care about presentation is a joke with the junk they send us. I'm sure you all have great story's about prints that have arrived. Little off subject but I just got a print of War Horse with at least 5 splices on each reel that I could count just from looking at the reef from the side, one has at least 7 splices besides it was totally beat. Needless to say another one was sent for midnight arrival.

Fred

Fred

Posted by Brad Miller (Member # 2) on 03-03-2012, 04:07 PM:

I used to keep a box of small can liners in my booth and would individually wrap each reel of film as it was broken down. This way those dirty cans didn't get crap all over the edges of the print.

Posted by Kenneth Wuepper (Member # 1174) on 03-04-2012, 06:49 AM:

We keep a small canister vacuum cleaner with hose and dust brush attachment handy. Each reel is removed and vacuumed before it is handled any more. After the case is emptied, that gets a thorough cleaning as well.

These new fangled plastic boxes get the same treatment as the dirt seems not to discriminate where it goes.

Posted by Ross Oba (Member # 3433) on 03-04-2012, 03:03 PM:

Whenever we get reel replacements, they come shrink wrapped. I have never seen a brand new print with the same.

Posted by David Buckley (Member # 2600) on 03-04-2012, 07:58 PM:

When films arrive on cores here, they are not shrink-wrapped, but enclosed in a loose fitting plastic bag. These then get stacked into a box with a piece of cardboard between the reels, with boxes sized from two to about six reels.

Most first run cinemas in New Zealand seem to assume that when they de-platter the last big hit, then the film goes to some great big graveyard in the sky, but the film on it's core is more often than not put back neatly in its bag, albeit with a bit of masking tape holding the film to the core (bad!) and the cardboard seperators between the reels. Removal of automation splotches is the exception rather than the rule, and tails in or out is always a crap shoot.

However, sometimes these movies end up at our house, which truly is (or was) the last run cinema on the planet. We show the film once on changeovers, and then rebag and rebox. And what happens to the movies then? Once, we had a cry room, but now it is that graveyard of old prints that the 'plex projectionists can only dream about...

To be fair, this was a while ago, (LOTR 2003 complete with fake name in bottom right corner), and the distributors are now wanting their movies back, but this lot probably went to landfill rather than back to the Vault.

The reel in the bottom left corner; I that is a relic of the old projectors that were installed in 1931 and replaced in the mid 1990s, and I believe that it has an incompatible centre compared to "modern" reels.

Posted by Jock Blakley (Member # 6552) on 03-04-2012, 08:55 PM:

Ooh, look at all the Atlab boxes! Subsumed now by the Deluxe empire.

Loose plastic bags is more than we ever get except for in one or two prints every few months.

This one of my favourite examples:

On the right is the 7-spool box containing INCENDIES, and on the left is what would be junked print if it wasn't for the plastic cans provided by the German lab.

Posted by Edward Havens (Member # 4715) on 03-05-2012, 12:30 AM:

The only times I ever received films on cores instead of reels was whenever we played a Bollywood movie.

Posted by Graham Ritchie (Member # 5226) on 03-05-2012, 02:25 AM:

This photo taken a while ago is of a new print from Fox. The reason I took the photos in the first place was the title on the box "Darwins Revenge" it made me [Big Grin]

I prefer films arriving this way, some might be tail out, others head out, either way it doesn't bother me, thats what my job "was"... "projectionist"....to sort it out [Wink]

Graham.

Posted by Victor Liorentas (Member # 5272) on 03-05-2012, 01:21 PM:

It's fine when new but after that booth monkeys and such will destroy it quickly compared to reels and film cans.

Posted by Graham Ritchie (Member # 5226) on 03-05-2012, 02:52 PM:

Over the years I have never come across a problem with films damaged as a result being in cores coming from other cinemas in NZ or from Aussie. The film handing and care of prints I have found in general "down under" is pretty good.

Graham.

Posted by Victor Liorentas (Member # 5272) on 03-05-2012, 03:03 PM:

Yeah you may have a point for down there and England since everyone is used to that but in North America it will get dropped,tangled and mangled in no time due to lack of split reels or booth monkeys.