Film-Tech Forum ARCHIVE: Academy Leader -- The Case of the Red X

This is topic Academy Leader -- The Case of the Red X in forum Film Handlers' Forum at Film-Tech Forum ARCHIVE.

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Posted by Manny Knowles (Member # 1171) on 04-07-2012, 03:02 PM:

I keep getting these repertory prints with a big red "x" on the 3-foot frame, and it makes me wonder...

Who's putting these marks on the leader? What's the convention that's being followed here? Why would a projectionist care about the 3-foot mark? Is anybody really threading that close to FFOA?

I've been erasing that mark, since it has no meaning to me and I don't like having unnecessary marks that close to picture.

Unless someone can convince me that there's some wisdom in leaving it alone, I'll keep removing them.

Posted by Scott Norwood (Member # 30) on 04-07-2012, 03:11 PM:

I have not seen this. I agree that it does not seem to serve any obvious purpose.

Prints with laser subtitles usually have a sticker on the picture-start frame (I assume that this is for synchronizing the subtitling machine), and Xs at and around the 8' mark are common (especially when the leader is missing frames after the 8' mark), but I cannot imagine the purpose of an X at the 3' mark. Weird.

I, too, am curious as to why anyone would do this.

Posted by Jim Henk (Member # 3628) on 04-08-2012, 02:50 AM:

At the Rialto in S Pasadena in the early 80s, (art house/calendar house) we used to see this at the 9 foot mark on occasional prints, and at the 3 foot mark on other occasional prints. We could only guess that somebody out there was cueing there, turning the motor on, and just throwing it open. It's been around for a long time. Gonna go be ill now...

Posted by Manny Knowles (Member # 1171) on 04-08-2012, 11:53 PM:

I remember the Rialto -- I used to live in Pasadena back in the 90s -- I saw a few movies there, including "Priest," "The English Patient" and, of course, "The Rocky Horror Picture Show."

Cueing to 3-feet... Wow! [Eek!]

Posted by Tom Sauter (Member # 616) on 04-09-2012, 07:11 AM:

Perhaps this is someone's way of marking a cue (lights, douser) so they can kindly remove the foil after the run? At least they're removing the foil [Smile]

Posted by Manny Knowles (Member # 1171) on 04-09-2012, 12:25 PM:

Nope -- just last week -- the print that prompted this very thread -- had both the big red "x" and foil cues all over the place.

And these aren't neat foil cues that I'd consider leaving in place. They're hideous dirt-catchers. Thick, unevenly applied, encroaching into picture area, and bound to make the film "jump" in the gate.

So... No, Tom... THEY'RE not "kindly removing the foil" -- I'M removing it.

It occurs to me: Either there are a lot of "projectionists" who don't read Film-Tech, and don't know any better -- or else we're all on here (surprisingly a lot of members considering the field has dried up) -- and some of us just don't give a shit.

For example: After all that's been said about it on here... How many more prints am I going to have to remove masking tape from??

Posted by Brian Guckian (Member # 1678) on 04-09-2012, 01:07 PM:

Are they relatively new prints? It might be possible to identify whoever's doing this. Of course these prints may well have international circulation too, complicating things.

Also, are they changeover prints, or have the leaders been cut in some or all cases?

Posted by Scott Norwood (Member # 30) on 04-09-2012, 01:15 PM:

I should start marking "X"es on the 4' frame, just to irritate Manny. [evil]

I am not sure about anyone else, but I have run into a surprising number of people who read this forum, but who are not registered and never post. Even so, they have recognized me by my name and picture. Weird. And I haven't done regular theatre projection work in a while (by choice, thankfully)...I only really do film festivals and the occasional one-off event now.

Posted by Martin McCaffery (Member # 37) on 04-09-2012, 01:30 PM:

Manny, back when I was projectioning all over the place, I'd run into all sorts of marked up leaders. Yes, there were plenty of people who threaded on 3- and were very proud that they never missed a changeover. That their changeovers were crap is another story.

Posted by Brent Francis (Member # 5008) on 04-09-2012, 03:29 PM:

Threaded on the THREE??? Wish my car could go from 0 to 60 that fast.

Posted by Manny Knowles (Member # 1171) on 04-09-2012, 07:58 PM:

quote: Brian Guckian
Also, are they changeover prints, or have the leaders been cut in some or all cases?

These have been plattered. Almost every print I get has had the leaders cut for plattering. I'm curious...what difference does that make?

Posted by Brad Miller (Member # 2) on 04-09-2012, 10:54 PM:

quote: Brent Francis
Threaded on the THREE??? Wish my car could go from 0 to 60 that fast.

Some projectors DO go to full speed in about 1/2 of a second. Christie P35GP and Cinemeccannica V5 come to mind.

My GUESS here is that the red X is either:

A. Someone threading with 3 in the gate, watching for the first frame of picture to enter the penthouse/projector at a certain spot so they can fire up the second motor (on one of those instant starting types of projectors), having no idea that they are actually scratching the first part of every reel because the sounddrum is not up to speed yet. (Well, not on the V5.)

B. Someone threads with X entering the penthouse or something, but it is more like 6, 7 or 8 "in the gate".

Posted by Manny Knowles (Member # 1171) on 04-10-2012, 12:56 PM:

Interesting. What would the 2nd motor do? I've never had a projector with 2 motors.

Any why would there be a concern about film position in a penthouse if these prints only carry optical tracks?

I guess my point is simply this: isn't the fact that it's a "3" frame be enough of a mark? Why add a mark to a frame that's already unique? Even if they're dealing with SMPTE leader, the 3-foot position corresponds to the "2" frame -- unique on that leader too.

I suspect this is pure mindless habit with no "real" reason behind it. If the leader's markings are faulty, I will add "tape numbers" to indicate the commonly-used marks. But I never mark all the way down to "3" and I never re-mark frames that are "good" as-is.

Posted by Brent Francis (Member # 5008) on 04-10-2012, 04:12 PM:

I used Cinemeccanica V5's for changeovers for years and usually laced up the 3rd "6" in the gate. No problem. When you say two motors, do you mean a motor running two speeds? We had to start the motor, wait until it got up to full speed (you heard it clunk) then switch to "2nd gear" (the sound speed setting). We had a model that did it automatically but manual was OK for this booth monkey.

Posted by Brian Guckian (Member # 1678) on 04-10-2012, 06:10 PM:

quote: Manny Knowles
I'm curious...what difference does that make?

Well if you were getting prints where the leaders hadn't been cut, one would expect them also not to be marked up like that, festooned with foil cues, etc. Generalising of course, but kind of goes with the territory. [Frown]

Posted by Brad Miller (Member # 2) on 04-10-2012, 06:15 PM:

The second motor, as in the motor on the second machine not yet running before the changeover.