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The Bronze mount is slightly bigger on the left machine, but not that much that we're talking inches, maybe a 1/4 inch difference.

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Bernie, in lamphouse terms that 1/4 inch is the equivalent of a mile in focus length! (Ok maybe not a mile but it is a huge difference. I had a Christie that was missing a 1/8" spacer that threw it completely out of range, it wouldn't focus well to the point it had about HALF the light output of it's mate).

The bulb in the right machine is sitting 1/4 too deep in the reflector (you would have to carefully use a tape measure with the bulb in to note the actual difference in the location of the electrode gap).

Two options exist for you:

One, locate the correct support for the right machine.
Two, have a machinist fabricate a brass spacer to push that bulb out the 1/4 inch.
 

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Posted by Pete Naples (Member # 761) on 07-11-2012, 08:29 AM:
 
I've seen those mirrors warp in the past, had one of a brand new colour matched pair that was bad, straight out of the box
 

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Posted by Louis Bornwasser (Member # 3063) on 07-11-2012, 09:03 AM:
 
If the collet is SHORT, it may be possible to pull the bulb out a bit and retighten.

If the collet is LONG, you may be able to remachine the OTHER END of it. Design is similar to the Super Lumex and parts are sometimes swapped between the two. (Remove the c-clip and remove enough material to make it the same size as the correct one.) Louis
 

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Posted by Bernie Anderson Jr (Member # 410) on 07-11-2012, 09:22 AM:
 
Deleted. Tried to post pictures
 

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Posted by Sam D. Chavez (Member # 1841) on 07-11-2012, 10:19 AM:
 
I suspect you have a warped reflector.

Here's what I do when I get a troublesome alignment if it's physically possible.

I take the lamp and turn it sideways on the base. I adjust the horizontal and vertical adjustments and the focus until I get symmetrical rings when I run the bulb focus in and out. Sometime it is necessary to move the reflector to get the light to go out the center of the cone. This may also reveal other problems such as the positive holder being too low or high.

Once this is sorted out, put it back behind the projector and without touching the lamp alignment (except the lamp focus) raise and lower only the lamp chassis, lamp table etc., until the lamp is centered to the projector in both axis.

You'll know when you are there when the rings are in the center of the screen and the rings go in and out of focus symmetrically. Repeat as need until you fix it or you wear out or run out of time.
 

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Posted by Louis Bornwasser (Member # 3063) on 07-11-2012, 10:15 PM:
 
Someone mentioned warped reflectors. I ordered 6 of these reflectors all were warped. Thank God for Dale McMillen. Eventually it turned out that a new guy at Strong used too much force when potting the reflectors; all were bad. I got full credit on all but one; too old. Big expense. louis
 

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Posted by Tony Bandiera Jr (Member # 2365) on 07-12-2012, 12:09 AM:
 
Bernie linked the pics to me and it appears that Sam may have the answer with a warped reflector....from the angles in the pics both look off but the dim one looks further off....and there still appears to be a length difference with that support.

Damned annoying....one reason I criticize Strong so much is the crappy issues with their equipment like this situation...if one is lucky they can get the right person there when things go wrong, but that's a crapshoot.

Bernie, IMHO you really need to get a local tech to address this issue as it is very hard to give you a definitive answer online, working from pictures.

Like I said in my other post, it takes tight tolerances to get proper focus and even illumination. Only a site visit would allow a tech to measure and check out the issues.
 

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Posted by Bernie Anderson Jr (Member # 410) on 07-15-2012, 11:15 PM:
 
So Here's an update on the Ultra 80.

I changed the reflector. I also changed out the switcher power supply, just incase.

I did get a brighter picture overall, but I still have a focus issue. When you take the lens out and focus the rings, I get a hot spot just above the black the center. I have to adjust the back end of the bulb, up as far as I can go and the hot spot barely disappears into the black. I can not get it to focus any lower. Side to side isn't a problem. I know if I can get it centered better, I can achieve a bright picture.

I used the Align-o-tron with a pin hole aperture plate. The center of the lens was centered on the hole of the aperture plate, through which I got the laser to go through and was able to align the fork on the front of the bulb and the back of the reflector. It was absolutely perfect from lens to rear of the lamp house. When I put light on the screen, I got the hot spot above black center and with a lens in the projector the top of my picture was dark. I looked at the light as it was shining on the back of shutter and you can see the the lamp is higher than the aperture. With the simplex base, I have no way of adjusting the lamp house any lower. All I could do was the lift the back end of the lamp house cradle and shim it up. But still the lamp adjustment is up as high as I can go. Any suggestions?
 

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Posted by Gordon McLeod (Member # 33) on 07-16-2012, 08:44 PM:
 
put a small piece of flat mirror across the back of the mirror alignment plug and ensure that reflected laser beam bounces straight back to the centre of the laser i have often seen ones where the reflector bracket is squed
 

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Posted by Bernie Anderson Jr (Member # 410) on 07-23-2012, 09:53 AM:
 
I just wanted to follow up with my solution to this problem.

Thanks Gordon, for that suggestion. I tried it, the reflector was off a bit. But what made even more difference was adjustment of the Yoke a little bit higher.

Now here's the weird thing. When I used the Align-o-tron to get center, it was lined up perfectly, from lens to aperture, all the way to the yoke, through the reflector and back to the center of the collet. When I put the bulb in, I still got the hot spot above the center black dot (bulb) and could not get it to travel any farther down. I checked the reflector with the mirror and shimmed the one reflector bolt with a washer and tried to push the reflector top forward by adjusting those threaded rods, to try and get the laser's reflection centered as much as possible. What this did was throw off the reflector and instead of making circles, I was getting weird shadows on the bottom left side of the light.

I removed the shim, but kept the reflector top pushed forward and decided to match the heigh of the yoke to the left machine (which is working properly). I did this, and focus was almost perfect, dead center. Actually this lamp is now brighter than the left machine. Both Yokes are the same.

I put in the Align O Tron to see where my center point is and instead of it being dead center on the front nipple of the bulb, the bulb sits maybe higher with the laser more at the bottom of the nipple. Now, its not straight when compared to the laser, but by eye it does look straight. I'm not sure why it wouldn't line up when it was perfectly centered, but that little adjustment made all the difference in the world.

Thanks for the help.
 

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Posted by Sam D. Chavez (Member # 1841) on 07-23-2012, 10:38 AM:
 
That is why Sam's Alignatron method works so well. Actually, I got the idea from Lonny.

I've never had any luck with lasers and I am always puzzled why they don't work all that well. Maybe they are too straight for our crooked film equipment.
 

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Posted by Bernie Anderson Jr (Member # 410) on 07-23-2012, 11:43 AM:
 
Yeah, its very strange. It was off, just so slightly, that it made such a difference in the focus. It's like one of those "of course..." moments.

Bernie
 

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Posted by Richard Fowler (Member # 893) on 07-23-2012, 12:34 PM:
 
I have used some lasers which had a little drift so I had to match them with a "witness" mark on the tube for repeatable reference.
 

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Posted by Steve Guttag (Member # 268) on 07-23-2012, 05:04 PM:
 
Lasers are good for finding "centers" but not as good as people think for aligning reflectors.

I will generally use a laser to bore-sight the path from lens to rear of reflector...note one has to also ensure that their lens mount is absolutely square to the entire optical path or the laser will literally point you in the wrong direction.

Once everything is centered (concentrically), I use the Kinoton alignment projector to set the reflector since now we are actually reflecting the light back using the reflector itself...the results are always spot on, very even, low heat.
 

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Posted by Gordon McLeod (Member # 33) on 07-24-2012, 10:33 AM:
 
I found that the alignotrons were sometimes off a bit
I centred mine in the lathe and then shot it down the lathe bed to a centre in the tailstock and then using a set screw that i put in the side shifted the laser so that it stayed centred on the lathe centre as i moved the tailstock back and forth

One issue also is that the actual edge of the hole in the reflector needs to be machined square to the optical axis and some were not Glass reflectors are usually more accurate

Also as bernie dicovered the end of the lamp sitting in the yoke must also be centred and that there is variances in some manufacturers
 

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Posted by Jack Ondracek (Member # 1466) on 07-25-2012, 11:45 AM:
 
This isn't necessarily an ad for one company, or a slam against another, but I wasn't all that impressed with the Ultra-80.

For one thing, the projectors I put in front of mine all ran hotternhell. Anecdotally, light output seemed about as good as my old X-60 with glass reflector.

Several years ago, I replaced my 3 lamps with new ones from Big Sky. These lamps have small, deep, dichroic reflectors that took me some time to get used to... having had the big ones from the X-60. I also bought the front-mounted heat shields.

Aside from seeming to be much brighter, I can put a 7kW bulb in them and lay my hands on top of my projectors... just warm to the touch.

It's gonna break my heart the most to pull those things out of the booth in a couple of months.
 

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Posted by Louis Bornwasser (Member # 3063) on 07-25-2012, 12:53 PM:
 
The X60/Super 80/Ultra 80 are identical since they use the same part number of reflector. Cooling is the major difference.

(Old X60 had glass reflectors, which were, at least, cooler.) Louis
 

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Posted by Sam D. Chavez (Member # 1841) on 07-25-2012, 01:04 PM:
 
I vote the X60C as the high water mark in American film lamphouses. Simple, straightforward and pretty well built. They were an extension of the design of the carbon arc Futura's and Excelite's, (sp).

I believe these were the last of the glass reflectors for Strong.

I used a couple of rebuilt ones in the Dolby screening room back in 1986. They worked well for 70 and 35mm and as mentioned, ran very cool and quiet, unlike the nasty and noisy Chritie lamps of that era. In fact they are still there but not much film being run there these days.
 

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Posted by Jack Ondracek (Member # 1466) on 07-25-2012, 04:11 PM:
 
Well, that would explain a lot. I really did like those glass reflectors. Unfortunately, the lamphouse wore out before the glass did!
 

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Posted by Steve Guttag (Member # 268) on 07-25-2012, 09:54 PM:
 
I used quite a few Ultra-80s over the years...never had a heat issue...honestly.

I dealt with the X60B-D series...They were definitely a transitional lamphouse with the "optional" ignite button. What they lacked that the Futura IIs had was having the burner assembly move forward/aft for 35/70 rather than the silly refocousing of the lamp...ruining the geometry of the arc/reflector.
 

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Posted by Bernie Anderson Jr (Member # 410) on 07-26-2012, 01:14 AM:
 
That's interesting, since my next concern is heat. I'm running 5000w and all I have is a heat filter in it. When I was running 5000w in Xetron Consoles, all I had was air cooled gates and water cooled aperture and the heat was a lot less. I can achieve 16 footlambert if I want, but it would definitely burn up the film. I'm at 11-13 ftl and its still too hot.
 

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Posted by Louis Bornwasser (Member # 3063) on 07-26-2012, 06:53 AM:
 
Assuming Century or XL, you will need water at 3k and over. Louis
 

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Posted by Bernie Anderson Jr (Member # 410) on 07-26-2012, 12:06 PM:
 
Yep, SA's with turrets. I was thinking the same thing.
 

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Posted by Gordon McLeod (Member # 33) on 07-26-2012, 04:16 PM:
 
The strong X25 was a nice lamphouse in its day as well
 

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