Film-Tech Forum ARCHIVE: Film Guard question

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Posted by Paul Looker (Member # 5420) on 07-25-2012, 05:19 PM:

I've been reading posts on here that say film guard can fill in and restore base side scratches? Is this true? More specifically if I have a print with base side scratches on the soundtrack causing slight staticy crackle can film guard help fix this or at least make it less noticeable?

Posted by Chris Slycord (Member # 4239) on 07-25-2012, 05:57 PM:

It would take a few passes through, possibly over several days of having it run with the stuff on every show. And in the end, there's the possibility that it the soundtrack is too damaged to get the desired result.

Posted by Randy Stankey (Member # 64) on 07-25-2012, 06:48 PM:

Like Chris says, it doesn't work instantly and it depends on how bad the damage is.

It also depends on how long it's been since the damage occurred. If the damage occurred some time ago, microscopic bits of dirt will fill in the scratches. It will take a long time for the FilmGuard to get that dirt out.

I have used FG a lot. I used to get some pretty beat up prints and, done properly, it can make a marginal print play "pretty good" and it can make a so-so print play well.

The way I suggest doing it is to give the film a good run through with clean, freshly saturated pads on the film cleaner then let the film sit on the platter, untouched, overnight. Then, the next afternoon, rewind the pads, as per the instructions and clean the film again. On the third showing, you should start to see good results.

It's the soaking overnight which I believe loosens the dirt.

As to soundtracks, yes, FilmGuard will help restore good sound to a scratched up soundtrack but, once damaged, it's nearly impossible to get perfect sound again unless the damage was very light in the first place.

Posted by Paul Looker (Member # 5420) on 07-25-2012, 07:29 PM:

I think they are base scratches. I know how it happens. I have a neutronic platter system with the five roller sliding take up. When my staff sucks, like they do, they can neglect to check those rollers and film gets caught with the soundtrack running allong the edge of the large roller unable to slip off and drop the failsafe because of the guide roller. It just takes one time to get that little hiss. There have been times when one time was much worse. The Clone Wars in 2008. So it was definitely just once. I need to try and fix this somehow. It makes me physically ill to run like this and I don't think I can afford a replacement print. Is getting set up with a cleaner and a quart of film guard even more cost effective than print replacement? Is it worth it to try or does it sound like im already screwed. It's so faint that through the vast majority of the film you have to be listening for it. In some very quiet scenes it's there but still faint. What are my chances of getting even the faintest scenes clear and quieting up the more noticeable?

Posted by Randy Stankey (Member # 64) on 07-25-2012, 08:48 PM:

If the noise is faint, you ought to be able to quiet it down enough that you have to listen hard to hear it. You might clear it up all together but, from a distance, it's impossible for me to judge. I'd have to see and hear the damage.

That, having been said, I have had some prints with soundtracks that were scratched up so much that they sounded like bacon frying. A generous application of FilmGuard, by hand, at the workbench plus two runs through the cleaner cleared them up enough that they could play to an audience without any complaints from customers.

As I said above, I think allowing the FilmGuard to soak in overnight is the key to repairing (or I should say "covering up") the damage. The instructions do say something to the effect that the first application won't have full effect but it's hard to elaborate on all the details in a single page of text.

Without regard to the details in the instruction sheet, whether or not you allow the film to soak overnight, the real magic of FilmGuard doesn't happen until after two or three passes through the cleaner.

When you start to see pink, blue and green streaks appearing on the gauze roll, that's when it's really starting to work.

As it is, now, with movie theaters being dominated by digital projection, you can't afford NOT to be using FilmGuard!

Regardless of the technology used to project your movies, you ought to be doing everything you can to put on the best presentation you know how.

P.S. - Anybody who scratches film should get a three-day, mandatory, unpaid "vacation" from work unless it happened due to an unforeseeable circumstance like a machine malfunction.

Posted by Paul Looker (Member # 5420) on 07-26-2012, 10:05 AM:

How do you apply it by hand at the work bench?

Posted by Chris Slycord (Member # 4239) on 07-26-2012, 10:49 AM:

Everyone I know that's applied it by hand used gloves as softly as they could.

On the other hand, it's been shown on here that one can modify the projector brackets to hook up a kelmar cleaner to the rewind bench...

Posted by Paul Looker (Member # 5420) on 07-26-2012, 11:07 AM:

Who do I call to get set up with everything I'm going to need here, the kelmar cleaner film guard and media pads, with the ability to ship out overnight for Friday morning arrival in Pittsburgh?

Posted by Victor Liorentas (Member # 5272) on 07-26-2012, 12:23 PM:

When I apply it by hand I cut up little strips of soft lint free cotton cloth.Just big enough to cover both sides of the film with my fingers wrapped around it.I soak each strip and apply it to about 20 feet,stop and repeat with a fresh piece.Each piece can be used twice,each side once.
I will do the whole film twice if damage needs covering up.
This is a lot of work though.

Posted by Randy Stankey (Member # 64) on 07-26-2012, 01:11 PM:

I have hand-cleaned film at the bench, both, with a piece of soft cloth (a film glove) and using a Kelmar machine affixed to the bench.

Both ways work but each has their own good and bad points:
Using a cloth is more tedious and tiring because you have to hold the cloth onto every bit of film on the reel(s). It is also more difficult to apply the liquid evenly.
Using the machine is easier and allows an even coating but, if you run the winder too fast, you can easily scratch the film.
Further, using a cloth in-hand allows you to concentrate your efforts on specific parts of the film that you think need more attention.

I generally avoid bench cleaning unless I think the film really needs it. Often that is because the film needs more work that just the projector can do. I believe bench cleaning should be a last resort.

In order to start using FilmGuard, you'll need a bottle of the liquid and a box of the pads, of course, but you'll also need the cleaning machine, the bracket and the bolts to mount it onto your projector or platter.

Any reasonably competent person who knows one end of a wrench from the other should be able to install a Kelmar cleaner onto a projector in less than an hour.

Posted by Ron Funderburg (Member # 4561) on 07-26-2012, 01:14 PM:

There is nothing better for the protection and cleaning of film than Film-Guard! And "that's the facts Jack" Bill Murry "That's the name of that Tune" Robert Black they certainly agree with me

Posted by Chris Slycord (Member # 4239) on 07-26-2012, 04:18 PM:

quote: Paul Looker
Who do I call to get set up with everything I'm going to need here, the kelmar cleaner film guard and media pads, with the ability to ship out overnight for Friday morning arrival in Pittsburgh?

Your normal equipment supplier doesn't have any of these things? Or is it that they can't get it to you that quick?