Film-Tech Forum ARCHIVE: 35mm with the use of audio description

This is topic 35mm with the use of audio description in forum Film Handlers' Forum at Film-Tech Forum ARCHIVE.

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Posted by Leonardo Rossi Lazzari (Member # 7144) on 08-27-2012, 09:06 AM:

Hi guys!
First of all, I'm very glad to have been accepted into the forum. Thank you!
I'm Leo Rossi from Brazil, and I work in a company as a director of audio description (also named "voice description"). If you want to know us, just go www.iguale.com.br .
Well, let's to the question:
We want to project films with audio description. The films do not have this feature. Our job is to watch the movie, make a script and record it in digital audio. This done, we need to synchronize audio with this 35mm film, but we do not have access to the array. We have to synchronize direct the film, in the exhibition hall. Is there a way this can be done? Sync via timecode? But how?
I really appreciate your help!
Leo.

Posted by Harold Hallikainen (Member # 5405) on 08-27-2012, 09:26 AM:

For film, I believe the most common method of delivering a VI-N track would be through use of a DTS system that reads timecode off the film and syncs the audio to that. For digital cinema, an audio track of the DCP is dedicated to VI-N audio.

Good luck!

Harold

Posted by Leonardo Rossi Lazzari (Member # 7144) on 08-27-2012, 01:04 PM:

Thanks Harrold!
So, can I sync the film using the Dolby sound? We have this equipment
http://www.dolby.com/us/en/professional/hardware/cinema/audio-processor/cp650.html

Can I use my Pro Tools like a "slave" to do this?
Thanks,
Leo.

Posted by Chris Slycord (Member # 4239) on 08-27-2012, 01:56 PM:

No, you can't use pro tools software to do this.

What you need is either to get a Datasat (DTS) timecode reader then use Datasat's Digital CSS system and either use a secondary projector to throw captioning onto the screen overlayed on top of the normal image (giving "open captioning") or use their Rear Window System that'll allow for a closed captioning.

And you could definitely continue using your Dolby unit for sound.

Posted by Scott Norwood (Member # 30) on 08-27-2012, 02:11 PM:

It could also be done with a magnetic dubber or digital playback device that synchronizes with the film projector. Unlike DTS, however, these methods do not accommodate missing footage in the film print.

Posted by Leonardo Rossi Lazzari (Member # 7144) on 08-27-2012, 02:12 PM:

Hi Chris!
This is not for "captioning" it's for audiodescription (to blind people).
Harold, what is "VI-N audio"?
Thanks guys,
Leo.

Posted by Ken Lackner (Member # 1002) on 08-27-2012, 02:26 PM:

Leo,

The DTS (now Datasat) system Chris describes includes both captioning and descriptive audio. If you don't need captioning, simply don't use it.

You can probably find a used DTS-XD10 that includes the CSS (Cinema Subtitling System) functionality for pretty cheap. Again, CSS includes the ability to do captioning, but if you don't need it, just use the system for descriptive audio. The system works by synchronizing timecode printed on the film with data from a CD you will receive from Datasat that includes the narration audio.

VI-N is visually impaired-narration, I believe.

Posted by Kirk Futrell (Member # 5006) on 08-27-2012, 02:34 PM:

So, would he need to contact Datasat, and send them the audio descriptive file to have made to a DTS disk, if they have DTS capability, or a Datatsat processor? Either way the 35mm print will need to have a DTS timecode on it for these options to work, is that correct?

Posted by Leonardo Rossi Lazzari (Member # 7144) on 08-27-2012, 02:44 PM:

Chris, I'm sorry for not understanding before.
Ken, I would ask the same question that Kirk.
Leo.

Posted by Daniel Schulz (Member # 1881) on 08-27-2012, 03:46 PM:

Hi Leonardo,

The Datasat system mentioned in the thread does synchronize to the Datasat timecode on the film print. The files would need to be sent to Datasat for encoding. Please feel free to contact me directly to discuss this technology, logistics and pricing.

Posted by Chris Slycord (Member # 4239) on 08-27-2012, 03:50 PM:

What would normally be done is you'd send datasat the movie and the audio description timed stuff and then they'd add the timecode to the print and make an appropriate content disc for using with their system.

Note: This is all merely as far as I know, since I've only worked in the exhibition-side...

Posted by Louis Bornwasser (Member # 3063) on 08-27-2012, 06:24 PM:

I believe the guy wants to use Dolby. Dolby encodes the location along with the audio. It would seem to be a trivial matter to strip off the location on the film and add it to the digital audio on your computer file.

Perhaps Sam Chavez can supply a likely engineer at Dolby? retired? Louis

Posted by Gordon McLeod (Member # 33) on 08-27-2012, 08:08 PM:

if oneputs a shaftencoder on the projector one can sync to a da88 if it hasthe biphase option otherwise you need a smpte timecode generator

Posted by Manny Knowles (Member # 1171) on 08-27-2012, 08:30 PM:

With the shaft encoder/bi-phase approach, how would one account for the inclusion of pre-feature material, such as trailers of unpredictable lengths? Or the excision of feature content, due to film damage?

Seems like location information from the film itself would be critical.

But would utilizing any pre-existing DTS time-code or Dolby metadata equate to patent infringement?

And what about prints that don't use DTS and/or Dolby?

Are these major releases? Is this kind of "enhancement" permitted by the exhibition contract?

Posted by Leonardo Rossi Lazzari (Member # 7144) on 08-27-2012, 09:00 PM:

Yes, Louis. Using dolby would be very interesting for us, because in this way we would not need to purchase other equipment, because we have the CP650. I could do through it?
Otherwise there is another device in hand. It's called "Biphase to time code converter - with option P - for a RUBIDUM module" by Alpermann + Velte.

Posted by Leonardo Rossi Lazzari (Member # 7144) on 08-28-2012, 01:21 PM:

Grateful people! You are helping a lot to clarify my ignorance about it.
So, does anyone know how to read this timecode generated by Dolby printed on the film strip?