Film-Tech Forum ARCHIVE: Simplex 35 projector leaks oil and sound head is not in sync with the projector head

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Posted by Nick Capone (Member # 7977) on 12-04-2013, 08:13 PM:

Hi,
I am new to this forum, but very excited to be a part of it. I have been collecting 8mm and 16mm projectors my whole life and am new to 35mm. I recently got a Simplex 35 projector from a local cinema. I just ran it for the first time today after putting oil in it. The projector head model is Simplex 35 MODEL: PR1014 and the sound head is a Ballantyne Model: VII. There are two things about the projector that I am worried about:

1) The projector is leaking oil. I know this is probably from over oiling, but want to check. The oil appears to be coming from around the base of the projector head where the projector head meets the sound head.

2a) When I run the projector the shutters are very loud. The sound of them is much like that of an airplane propeller. The entire projector ran more quietly once, however, and has been noisy since. Do the shutters need to be greased or oiled? If anyone can help that would be great:)

2b) When I run film through the projector, the sound head appears to run slightly faster than the projector head. When I thread the projector and turn it on, the film loop between the projector head and sound head diminishes completely in about five seconds. I am using a timing belt on the projector and can't imagine how this could happen. If anyone could help me out that would be great:)

Thank you very much.
Nick [Smile]

Posted by John Eickhof (Member # 323) on 12-05-2013, 05:42 PM:

If the projector is level, the oil level in the sight glass in the front should be no more than 3/16" above the bottom of the glass when the projector is idle (not running) any more and the oil will seep out behind the belt drive pulley. Next, did the projector head and soundhead come to you as a set? If not you may have the incorrect pulley on the projector thus the speed difference, otherwise, look at the film going over the bottom sprocket onto the take up reel and see if the film is skipping over the teeth on the sprocket, this indicates either too much tension on the take up reel clutch or the pad roller on the sprocket is out of adjustment. The pad roller needs 2 thicknesses of film between it and the sprocket. Good luck.

Posted by Nick Capone (Member # 7977) on 12-06-2013, 12:04 PM:

John, thanks for the advice!
The pad rollers on the sprockets appear to be fine. Today I did two things that seem to have fixed the problem:

1) I turned the shutter adjustment knob until it stopped and then turned it back 1 and 1/2 turns as the manual said to do when adjusting the shutter. I did not adjust the blades otherwise.

2) The main drive belt from the sound head to the projector head is supposed to be 1/2 inch wide. I have been using a 1/4" wide belt that was sent in the mail to me. Today I got another 1/4" belt and am using both together. (I did ask the company to send me the 1/2" wide one I ordered, but they sent another 1/4" wide timing belt).

Both these things together seem to have fixed the problem. The shutters no longer sound like an airplane and the film is in perfect sync from the projector head to the sound head.

As far as the oil goes, it is no longer leaking. I think I just put too much oil in the projector my first time. The projector I have is equipped with a drive-in oil gauge tube on the front of the projector. The oil level is almost up to the black ring around the bottom of the gauge.

Thank you so much for the help! I do plan on replacing the two 1/4" timing belts with a 1/2" wide one once I get one.

Nick [Smile]

Posted by Mark Gulbrandsen (Member # 72) on 12-06-2013, 12:24 PM:

If it's a Black Wrinkle finish XL it's gonna leak no matter what. Main casting is non- heat treated and VERY porus. The Blue hammertone projectors don't leak quite as bad and the late production stuff hardly leaks at all unless it's way over filled. Most tech's call them the Simplex Valdeze...

Mark

Posted by Ken Lackner (Member # 1002) on 12-06-2013, 12:38 PM:

No, Mark Gulbrandsen calls them Simplex Valdese.

[Big Grin]

Posted by Steve Matz (Member # 1890) on 12-06-2013, 02:40 PM:

Do British made 35mm Projectors leak oil like
their Motorcycles did in the day(Aerial,BSA,Triumph,
Matchless,Norton,AJS,Velocette,etc.) [thumbsup]

If not than there going against Tradition! [beer]

Posted by Rick Raskin (Member # 1561) on 12-06-2013, 03:39 PM:

Hey guys. How many booths did you work where there was a film can placed under the lower magazine to catch the dripping oil?

Posted by Mark Gulbrandsen (Member # 72) on 12-06-2013, 03:48 PM:

I had several Kalee 21's (British) in the home cinema a number of years backl. They for sure leak! But oh the fit and finish inside those projectors is awesome!

Ken... I didn't coin the term Simplex Valdeze... I honestly don't remember who did... but it fits. Strong's X-L's don't leak very much...

Rick... Cat litter boxes were common...

Posted by Richard May (Member # 2627) on 12-06-2013, 03:54 PM:

Almost every booth Rick. Film can, coffee can, cookie sheet...etc...

Posted by Louis Bornwasser (Member # 3063) on 12-06-2013, 04:18 PM:

Vee shaped collection trough to rain gutter on front wall to 5 gallon can in corner. Yes, really: (2) Super Simplex and MI-1040. I have not had the problems with the XL that Mark has had with leaking. Louis

Posted by Frank Cox (Member # 6258) on 12-06-2013, 04:47 PM:

I alway put an old newspaper on the floor in front of the projector. Changed it once in a while, of course.

Posted by Adam Fraser (Member # 1074) on 12-06-2013, 04:49 PM:

Our PR-1004's leaked just enough that a few paper towels on the floor was fine for absorbing the leaks. Maybe changed them every 3 months.

Now what to do with our booth setup after converting, I hate to throw a pristine matched pair into storage or scrap. But it doesn't look like they will ever be used again, the machine we left in place has been idle for 2 years now.

Posted by Mark Gulbrandsen (Member # 72) on 12-06-2013, 08:54 PM:

quote: Louis Bornwasser
I have not had the problems with the XL that Mark has had with leaking.

But you're not supposed to run 90 weight in them Louis! [Wink]

Posted by Brad Miller (Member # 2) on 12-06-2013, 09:51 PM:

It a Simplex. If you don't want oil everywhere, you just don't use a Simplex.

No need to overcomplicate things. [Razz]

Posted by Steve Matz (Member # 1890) on 12-07-2013, 02:13 PM:

Almost every indoor theater in Billings had Simplex E7's from the 40's clear up to the late 70's when they either closed up or changed ownership.The one old school projectionist that worked at all of them one time or another for decades never ever mentioned oil leakage when I quizzed him about good and bad points concerning E7's...

He loved those projectors but said that even at minimal gate pressure they where a little rough on Nitrate Film.I certainly
wouldn't have wanted to run anything but minimal pressure to avoid flutter on nitrate stock.As easy as that stuff could catch on fire you don't need any kind of added friction.Now I see why those old Booths had to be fire coded. When that stuff decomposes to white powder you have almost 100% Nitric Acid.For those unknowledgable on explosives NA was main ingredient in old school dynamite,TNT,Nitroglyerine,etc.

Those Projectionists from the 20's to 40's should have gotten hazardous pay along with their salary... [Eek!]

Posted by Mark Gulbrandsen (Member # 72) on 12-07-2013, 04:59 PM:

E-7's were manually oiled projectors adn they had tiny gears in them. Two versions first had an oblique shaft with gears the diameter of your little finger. Later verticle shaft versions had somewhat larger gears... but not larger by much. You had a reservoir of oil and you pumped the oil from this small tank into all the projector's bushings once a day. All the points needing to be oiled had small tubes running to them back to the oiler. The intermittent was manually oiled but from an oil can. E-7's are good projectors but overly complicated. I removed the last running one in my service area in Big Timber, Montana this past August. Certainly not my favorite projector by any stretch. I'd take a Super Simplex any day over an E-7. The Super is an older design but far more robust. You put Posi-Trol sprockets in a Super and be totally blown away by the image.

Mark