Film-Tech Forum ARCHIVE: Victoria 8 help

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Posted by Christopher Woollard (Member # 2455) on 01-12-2014, 06:27 AM:

Hello everyone, I have a 1970s vintage cinemeccanica victoria 8 projector, labelled RK60 and need to change the intermittent. I have a new one from cinemeccanica, early 1990s vintage not used with the certificate attached. It is rather stiff to turn over by hand, but seems perfect. I have a copy of the service book, just a series of engineering drawings with no instructions. Is it simply a matter of opening up the rear cover, unbolting the old unit, replacing and then rephasing the shutter or are there any other points to be aware of. First time I have done this with a Vic8, any advice welcome.
Thanks
Chris

Posted by Leo Enticknap (Member # 534) on 01-12-2014, 09:38 AM:

I've only changed an intermittent on a Vic 5, but that's essentially what's involved. If I remember correctly, you've got to remove the belts on the 5, lining up the sync marks on the gears as you do so (same as when replacing the cambelt on a car). I'm guessing that you might need to remove some transmission components on the 8 in order to gain access to the intermittent.

However, I don't like the sound of "rather stiff to turn over by hand". If it's been in storage for two decades unused, might the bearings need cleaning out and regreasing - especially if they were originally packed with molybendum grease at the factory?

Posted by Jonathan Wood (Member # 4614) on 01-12-2014, 11:11 AM:

I'm assuming you mean it's hard to turnover whilst there is no oil in it ? Isn't that how it should be? Don't know but I had a motor burn out on a kinoton because there wasn't enough oil in the intermittent , very stiff to turnover by hand - new motor and oil change later moved very freely. ?

Posted by Christopher Woollard (Member # 2455) on 01-12-2014, 11:46 AM:

Thank you gentlemen, Stiff is not really an engineering term of course. The intermittent has been kept well oiled since I obtained it back in 1996, it was the same then. Its drive gear is very small so you do not get much leverage with two fingers, feels like the cam is snug against the star and when the pin engages that is where it gets stiff but nothing bad. I can of course fit it and then try the feel on the inching knob before starting the motor. The Vic 8 is very different from the 5, an oil bath machine with a gear train to all moving parts rather than belts and the 8 has pumped oil lubrication. I hope the feel is normal and because it has suffered no wear yet.
Any advise on preforming the actual swop much appreciated.

Posted by Gordon McLeod (Member # 33) on 01-12-2014, 03:23 PM:

The V8 is gear driven not belt driven (except for the short belt between the motor and head and takeup)
in the warehouse is the manual for it and on page 32 has the instructions to change out the movement

http://www.film-tech.com/warehouse/manuals/CINVIC8.pdf

fill the movement with light oil and spin it a bit by hand till it loosens up
what is wrong with the movement in the machine they tend not to fail

Posted by Jonathan Wood (Member # 4614) on 01-12-2014, 04:01 PM:

I agree with Leo, it does sound strange that there is any tension as I imagine there would be very little resistance from such small components unless the tolerance was very tight? If your going to run the motor from an inverter then i would inch it very slowly before giving it full welly . Wouldn't want you to burn out your motor, as i said it happened to me , the movement was a little stiff by hand but caused enough resistance when powered to cause the motor to burn out. I was not best pleased !

Posted by Christopher Woollard (Member # 2455) on 01-12-2014, 04:11 PM:

Thank you gentlemen, the original intermittent is not bad really, but there is a small amount of vertical jump. As I have the new unit I may as well try it out. If matters get worse for some reason I can always go back. Found the instructions, many thanks. Will follow your advice ensuring oil and will run the mech back off plus cling film first to observe proper oil circulation.
Many thanks. PS the Odeon Leicester Square has one Vic8 still in place. Plus two 4k NECs of course.

Posted by Jonathan Wood (Member # 4614) on 01-12-2014, 04:23 PM:

is your V8 one of the Odeon's old machines ? Jon

Posted by Christopher Woollard (Member # 2455) on 01-13-2014, 12:18 AM:

Yes Jonathan, was sold to me by Odeon in 1992, in very good condition.

Posted by Leo Enticknap (Member # 534) on 01-13-2014, 08:23 AM:

Nigel Wolland gave me a tour of that booth in, IIRC, 1990 or '91. The projectors looked like they were fresh out of the factory, and sounded like it, too! I seem to remember reading that all three were replaced shortly afterwards, which would square with one of them having been sold to you in '92. If memory also serves me correctly, the new ones had to be lowered into the booth through the roof using a crane.

The ironic thing is that the pre-1992 projectors would probably have seen the film era out with no need for outright replacement. The whole projection booth looked as spotless as an operating theatre, and those were probably the three most scrupulously maintained projector mechanisms in the country.

Posted by Christopher Woollard (Member # 2455) on 01-13-2014, 12:08 PM:

Leo, what you say is very true. The new V8s only ran for a few years before most films went digital. I helped Nigel, Mark and some others get one of them down all the stairs at the OLS and up to the projected picture trust at Bletchley Park where Dion Hansen soon had it up and running in the trusts theatre as a working exhibit along with a restored kalee21. They also have a Vic10 from the OLS. Both are 70mm capable.

Posted by Jonathan Wood (Member # 4614) on 01-13-2014, 03:13 PM:

Those machines were in great shape, so quiet and steady. Did you get one of the sidewinders too ? That machine you helped move is now running with a cinemeccanica lamp house that I gave Dion in exchange for a nice little 1kw lamp house that they had. Such a treasure trove they have down there, just hope it stays there ! [Smile]

Posted by Christopher Woollard (Member # 2455) on 01-14-2014, 10:24 AM:

I got a DGB single sided tower as my projection room is very small.
Dion has suggested immersing the new intermittent in parafin or WD40 to desolve out any gunk that may be in there. I will give this a try.

Posted by Christopher Woollard (Member # 2455) on 02-08-2014, 05:33 AM:

Fitting the new intermittent was quite simple in fact. The picture is now very steady indeed, it has improved horizontally as well as vertically. Managed to get hold of a new intermittent sprocket as well. That is a little more noisy than the old one, which was good, but i expect it will run in. Absolutely no film problems. I do prefer the old Kalee steel sprockets as examples of great engineering.

Posted by Leo Enticknap (Member # 534) on 02-08-2014, 02:18 PM:

quote: Christopher Woollard
Dion has suggested immersing the new intermittent in parafin or WD40 to desolve out any gunk that may be in there. I will give this a try.

I'm wondering if the gunk was molybendum grease. Over the last decade or so, I've refurbished four or five Eiki RT and ST series 16mm machines (did one of my own as a learning curve experiment, and then, after I made the mistake of bragging about the successful outcome, was asked to do others by friends and colleagues). The bearings and camtank were packed with molybendum grease by the OEM, and getting the stuff off was a [insert colorful expletive here] to remove initially. In the end I resorted to immersing the components totally in isopropyl alcohol. That's not a cheap solution, as the stuff costs about £20 for a 5-litre container on Ebay, including shipping, and I ended up using about half that per projector. However, it worked very well - after a couple of hours immersed in the IPA, the grease was all gone. It also worked miracles in getting disintegrated bits of the natural rubber belts that the projectors were shipped with off the pulleys and gears. I regreased everything with synthetic, lithium-based bearing grease afterwards.

Posted by Geoff Newitt (Member # 6663) on 02-17-2014, 12:58 PM:

The Vic 8s at OLS were actually replaced as late as 1998, immediately after the 70mm run of Titanic, if memory serves. The previous ones might have looked pristine, but were in fact quite aged; they were not new when installed in the early 80s as replacements for the Vic Xs... I believe one of the three had previously been in the gone-before-my-time training centre in Camden.

But as someone above intimated - Vic 8s are incredibly strong machines and would have survived the Apocalypse, if digits hadn't got'em! In fact, I'm supposed to be reinstalling a full 35/70mm and Mag Vic 8 in the West End this summer... if all our plans come to fruition! In this case, an early 70s example that has been out of use for while; its partner is still in use (running almost exclusively 70mm) and runs sweet as a nut.

Posted by Christopher Woollard (Member # 2455) on 02-18-2014, 12:44 PM:

Thats great news. I had heard the West End was going to be replaced soon with a new building. If a 35/70 is going back in will we be treated to a 70mm revival?
Good luck with the project.

Posted by Geoff Newitt (Member # 6663) on 03-06-2014, 01:07 PM:

No, you misunderstand.

My project is in 'the' West End, not the Odeon West End - which is indeed coming down in the near future.

I still have to be vague about where exactly my project is - it's not quite in the public domain yet, and a word in the wrong place could scupper the whole thing.

Posted by Sam D. Chavez (Member # 1841) on 03-06-2014, 04:05 PM:

quote: Geoff Newitt
could scupper the whole thing.

Did you mean scuttle?

Posted by Leo Enticknap (Member # 534) on 03-06-2014, 04:39 PM:

In British slang, to scupper is to undermine/defeat/destroy something. Similar to scuttle, but not deliberate. Scuttle is definitely nautical in origin (deliberately sinking your own boat), and I think scupper is too, though I couldn't swear to it.

Posted by Sam D. Chavez (Member # 1841) on 03-06-2014, 08:48 PM:

What's that saying about 2 countries separated by a common language?