Film-Tech Forum ARCHIVE: 75th Anniversary for Polarized 3-D

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Posted by Robert Furmanek (Member # 7026) on 05-21-2014, 10:26 AM:

75 years ago, the New York World's Fair unveiled the World of Tomorrow. One of the most popular exhibits was the first black and white polarized 3-D film.

IN TUNE WITH TOMORROW was shown daily in dual-35mm at the Chrysler Pavilion. Sadly, this landmark film does not survive in 3-D. However, NEW DIMENSIONS, the 3-D follow-up produced for the 1940 season does survive and we have restored it from original 35mm Technicolor elements.

Thank you to Leonard Maltin for this wonderful article: http://blogs.indiewire.com/leonardmaltin/celebrating-3-d-on-its-75th-birthday

Posted by Claude S. Ayakawa (Member # 1401) on 05-21-2014, 06:13 PM:

I did not realize Polaroid 3-D and I have been around exactly the same amount of time time, Robert. I was about twelve years old during the 'Golden Age of 3-D in the early fifties and I tried to see as many 3-D movies I could and saw pretty much all of the ones that played in Honolulu and feel modern 3-D movies are not as good as the dual projection film version of the fifties. Current 3-D has only backward depth while 3-D films of the fifties had both backward as well as forward making it possible to have the urge to reach out and touch objects that is only a few feet in front of me.

I just obtained a 3-D HDTV a little over a month ago and now enjoying it very much. I have never seen DIAL M FOR MURDER IN 3-D until now with my new TV and enjoyed it very much along with HOUSE OF WAX ,THE CREATURE FROM THE BLACK LAGOON and many current 3-D movies such as AVATAR, HUGO, THE GREAT GATSBY, and 3-D conversions of TITANIC, JURASSIC PARK and THE WIZARD OF OZ. I want to thank you for making the effort to compile many rare 3-D shorts and trailers on Blu Ray and already looking forward to obtaining a copy when it is released this Fall.

-Claude

Posted by Jarod Reddig (Member # 6363) on 05-23-2014, 12:23 AM:

I too am excited for the 3D Blu-ray of shorts. Claude I think its incredible the amount of cinema history you got to experience. Cheers!

Posted by Marcel Birgelen (Member # 6801) on 05-23-2014, 03:24 AM:

quote: Claude S. Ayakawa
Current 3-D has only backward depth while 3-D films of the fifties had both backward as well as forward making it possible to have the urge to reach out and touch objects that is only a few feet in front of me.

The "pop out" effect is still commonly used, but most 3D productions seem to limit the use to a few effects. I guess it's actually for the better, because:

- It's generally regarded as a gimmick. Many of the first iteration of the "digital 3D" movies featured a lot of those effects. IMHO they primarily belong in a theme park ride, not a feature film.
- The over use of negative parallax (in your face 3D) will increase eyestrain.
- Those extreme pop-out effects are also prone to ghosting artifacts, sometimes destroying the intended effect entirely.
- Objects floating "in front of the screen" will feel small. For example: If you have a space-station floating in front of your face, it feels more like a model.
- Those pop-out effects loose much of their effect once they have to cross the sides of the screen.

That's why most 3D productions tend to treat the screen more like a window and not like a nonexistent barrier. For a really immersive 3D effect, we need bigger screens that envelope more of your field of vision. Also, movies need to be shot differently, much more like those IMAX docmentary movies. But I'm not sure if I really want to see every feature length movie this way...

Posted by Robert Furmanek (Member # 7026) on 05-23-2014, 04:53 AM:

Most of the 1950's 3-D productions were very mindful of the stereo window with few off-screen "gimmicks" and are vastly superior in quality to the 1980's 3-D films.

As the late Dan Symmes used to say: 3-D movies are like the circus. They're fun when they come to town but would you want to go every week?

Posted by Claude S. Ayakawa (Member # 1401) on 05-23-2014, 03:02 PM:

The Liberty Theatre in Honolulu was the only first run house to play 3-D movies in the fifties. It is very interesting to note the fact that there were no 2-D versions of 3-D films playing in theatres at the time as far as I know. You either saw the movie in 3-D or not at all. The only exception I know was HONDO, DIAL M FOR MURDER, MISS SADIE THOMPSON, and KISS ME KATE. I know there were a few others but I cannot think of them at the moment.

Yes, most of the movies at the time used 'in your face' gimmicks in 3-D, but there were a few that did not like INFERNO, DIAL M FOR MURDER andMISS SADIE THOMPSON. I only saw DMFM recently in 3-D on a Blu-ray Disc and MST in 2-D on DVD and the both did not have objects coming at you. The only exception was the DIAL M FOR MURDER title protruding out from the screen. I actually enjoyed the gimmicks used in 3-D movies in the fifties. Seeing blades of grass and native spears protruding out at you when they were looking for Lions in BWANA DEVIL was fun to watch.

-Claude

Posted by Claude S. Ayakawa (Member # 1401) on 05-23-2014, 08:13 PM:

Marcel, I am afraid I will have to differ with you about your comment the use of of forward depth perception in current 3-D movies. There is a possibility you had never seen dual projection 3-D because everyone beside myself who has seen it and love it will also not agree with your comments. Current 3-D movies that are considered the best in the format such as AVATAR, HUGO, GRAVITY and a few others although very good does not even come close to the quality of dual film projection 3-D of the fifties in my opinion.

One of the main reason 3-D failed in the fifties was was out of sync projection causing eye strain and headaches but I never experienced those problems.

-Claude

Posted by Jarod Reddig (Member # 6363) on 05-26-2014, 07:52 PM:

I would have loved to have seen some of those old 3D flicks in dual film 3D. The best pop out effects I have ever seen is the MuppetVision 3D short-film attraction at Disneyland Calfornia Adventure.

Posted by Claude S. Ayakawa (Member # 1401) on 05-26-2014, 09:15 PM:

Jarod, The 3-D presentation at Disneyland was fabulous when I saw the Michael Jackson film , CAPTAIN EO many years ago. It was dual projection 3-D and unlike the fifties films which was 35mm, the Disney presentation was projected from 70mm. It actually was the best 3-D I saw and the effects was exactly like fifties 3-D.

-Claude

Posted by Steve Matz (Member # 1890) on 05-26-2014, 11:48 PM:

I remember when JAWS 3 came out in Polorized 3D. The Story was a joke and not even related to the first 2 Jaws but the 3D was pretty impressive in a few scenes. The most memorable is when they blow the Shark up at the end and the pieces look like they came out of the screen and were hovering above the audience mid theater. I remember observing the audience and most of them were looking up towards the ceiling rather than the screen.

Thats why if they had filmed the original 1975 JAWS in 3D it would have scared the Crap out of people even more than the 2D Version. The 40th Anniversary of JAWS is next year;I wish UNIVERSAL would do a re-release in Quality 3D.I'm sure the same audience would Jump at the same scenes they did back in 75...

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=i92HbFBdGFc

If you follow the instructions below the U-Tube Screen
you will see actual true 3d...

Posted by Steve Moore (Member # 4753) on 05-27-2014, 08:32 AM:

Claude, I'm with you there; though not seeing any of the 50s productions, my first encounter of 3-D, that was polarised, was the Michael Jackson one at a theme park, maybe 25+ years ago, on a holiday with my parents which included a trip to Disney on the west coast (or was it Universal; we did both that year!)

It seemed to be the most amazing thing I had seen and unfortunately nothing ever has appeared to come close to how I remember that looking.

The next closest experience was an IMAX in Canada (possibly vancouver) a couple of years later, where they were pouring metal in a foundry.

Perhaps it was because I was young or because they were specifically made for 3D; but everything since that I have seen as been appeared to be a disappointment.

Posted by Claude S. Ayakawa (Member # 1401) on 05-27-2014, 03:31 PM:

I have always loved 3-D movies since I first saw them in the early fifties. Here are my ratings based only on my personal opinion of all the 3-D process I have witnessed since that time. My rating for fifties 3-D is a solid 10. I rate the 'Over/Under' process of the eighties a 4 because of weak 3-D effects and a very dim picture due to both right and left eye image were projected with a single projector when viewed with Polaroid 3-D glasses. Disneyland's Michael Jackson 3-D movie is a 10.5. (The half point is for 70mm) Original 15/70 IMAX 3-D documentaries such as UNDER THE SEA gets a 9. Digital IMAX gets a 7.5 and current digital 3-D in Real D gets a 7 and Dolby 3-D gets a 6.5. I might want to add about poorly converted 3-D movies such as CLASH OF THE TITAN and many like them. They all get a 3. Properly converted ones such as GRAVITY and PACIFIC RIM gets a solid 7.5.

Based on what I am getting with my new 40 inch Samsung 3-D HDTV and watching a Blu Ray of the IMAX film UNDER THE SEA, I score it a 8. All other good BDs such as HUGO, AVATAR, TITANIC and others get a 7

-Claude

Posted by Steve Moore (Member # 4753) on 05-28-2014, 04:04 AM:

Thanks Claude. I will have to look up that IMAX title; Hugo certainly has been the best looking Blu-Ray I have observed on my Epson 3D projector at home - not far behind was Tangled; but some parts were better than others.

Posted by Claude S. Ayakawa (Member # 1401) on 05-28-2014, 02:24 PM:

Steve
Beside UNDER THE SEA, other IMAX 3-D titles on Blu Ray you will enjoy for content and 3-D effects include DEEP SEA, HUBBLE 3-D
and BORN TO BE WILD . There are many others but these are the one I have and saw. There are several from the '3-D Golden Age' that you should look into. they include HOUSE OF WAX, CREATURE FROM THE BLACK LAGOON, and DIAL M FOR MURDER. Both HOUSE OF WAX and CREATURE FROM THE BLACK LAGOON has a lot of 'in your face' effects but DIAL M FOR MURDER is very subtle in 3-D except the main title card in the beginning. I did not see the Alfred Hitchcock film in 3-D in a theatre but only on a BD disc when I got my 3-D HDTV. I saw the other two in a theatre in 3-D during their first run. The 3-D on both of the movies is fantastic but no way as good as the original theatrical 3-D . The movies had much more forward and backward depth when I saw them at the Liberty Theatre. Another good one if you like animated 3-D is FINDING NEMO. It was created and originally released in 2-D but the 3-D conversion makes the movie look like it was natively created in 3-D.

-Claude

Posted by Jarod Reddig (Member # 6363) on 05-28-2014, 03:30 PM:

Very cool Claude. I missed the Captaion EO show when I was there. I think that was the only 3D attraction my wife and I didn't see. Unfortunalty I think it is no longer there.

Posted by Steve Moore (Member # 4753) on 05-30-2014, 11:19 AM:

I will looks those up too Claude, thank you. Just been looking at some of your photographs too online; very nice indeed. On a side note, I must return to Hawaii, that was an amazing holiday, the same year I saw Michael Jackson we flew onto Hawaii for a week.

Posted by Jeffry L. Johnson (Member # 453) on 05-31-2014, 12:43 PM:

quote: Steve Moore
The next closest experience was an IMAX in Canada (possibly vancouver) a couple of years later, where they were pouring metal in a foundry.

I think this is THE LAST BUFFALO (1990).

Posted by Steve Moore (Member # 4753) on 05-31-2014, 12:44 PM:

yes that was the one! Thanks

Posted by Frank Angel (Member # 248) on 05-31-2014, 02:50 PM:

THE LAST BUFFALO is one of the most impressive 3D titles I have ever seen, right up there with the best of those that Claude has named -- AVATAR, HUGO, HOUSE OF WAX, etc. It is a true cinematic experience -- the 3D is truly stunning and the content and concept are beautiful executed with not a word of dialogue, reminiscent of the beginning and ending sequences in 2001:ASO and many silent films -- completely visual and cinematic. It brilliantly juxtaposes and contrasts the beauty of the natural world against the beauty of the art created by man and technology.

Bob, any chance SOMEONE will do a Quality 3D Conversion (as Claude has aptly named it) of WORLD OF TOMORROW, just for the sake of the Anniversary? Nowadays when 3D conversions have gotten so good -- when done well, every bit as good as live capture, they could certainly do justice to that title. Given that most films genres which lend themselves to 3D, like GODAWFULZILLA, there's practically nothing there to capture as 75% of everything you see is rendered in the computer in the first place. You would just be dual-capturing live actors and a green screen. As bad as G is, the 3D was visually very effective in IMAX. IMAX is the way I try to watch all 3D titles I'm interested in if they are done in IMAX; any title released only in REALD 3D, I rather wait for the BR 3D so I can see them on my own BRIGHT home system). As for today's 3D as in IMAX, 75 Years later and dual projection 3D is STILL the right way to do it; I am itching to see IMAX 3D when they get the laser light source.

BTW, films about underwater and outer space, ala CREATURE and GRAVITY and JAWS 3, always seem to look great in 3D because in so many scenes you can have negative parallax with all that stuff floating out past the image frame while not breaking the screen edge; touching the screen edge collapses the 3D reality. Your mind says, "Hey stupid, that thing can't be 10 feet in front of the screen because it's touching the edge of the screen," thus breaking the illusion. Floating things can easily and naturally be composed not to touch the screen parimeter.

And please, as impressive as that JAWS 3 clip is, it's ANAGLYPHIC and should certainly never be called "...actual true 3D..." That sad, erronious myth never seems to go away no matter how many times it's debunked -- red/green analog way of creating left/right eye separation was NEVER the prime way ANY of the main 3D outings were exhibited. All those (many, MANY) artists and marketing dept publicity pictures out there showing an audience all wearing red/green colored glasses are dead wrong; it never happened...except for CREATURE and ICFOS decades after their initial polaroid release when Universal decided to bastardized those titles to make a little extra money. But aside from those totally isolated gimmicky instances, anaglyphic was NEVER used for mainstream 3D exhibition. Comic books, yes; cinema, no.

Oh, if only we could wipe these stupid images from the collective mind.

Posted by Claude S. Ayakawa (Member # 1401) on 05-31-2014, 02:53 PM:

Steve, I just watched PROMETIOUS last night in 3-D at home on Blu Ray and for some reason I thought the 3-D was better than when I saw it Digital IMAX 3-D at the Dolle Cannery here in Honolulu when it was first released. I liked it when I first saw it but enjoyed it more last night and this might be due to the 3-D looking better than in the theatre.

Thank you for the complements about my photographs. Next year will mark the 50th anniversary of the establishment of my studio and my photographic career. I was in your country a few years ago in 2008 when I was invited to share my knowledge on environmental portrait photography at the Society of Wedding & Portrait Photographers (SWPP) convention in London and had a great time..

-Claude

Posted by Claude S. Ayakawa (Member # 1401) on 05-31-2014, 04:46 PM:

Frank, I saw JAWS 3 at the twined Kuhio in the Over/under 3-D process and was not very impressed with it. Not enough depth and picture too dark. If Universal released it in 3-D on Blu Ray using the current 3-D technology, it might look better but not by much.

I bought a remake of. NIGHT OF THE LIVING DEAD (2006) that was produced and directed by Jeff Broadstreet on DVD in anaglyph 3-D and the results was interesting. It was pretty good 3-D but the eyes become tired after a short period of time and I never finished watching the entire movie in the format and watched the rest of the film in 2-D and in color. Although JOURNEY TO THE CENTRE OF THE EARTH is now available in splendid 3-D on Blu Ray, it was first released in anaglyph before the introduction of true 3-D on home video and the result was a mix bag.

I never saw the anaglyph version of the two classic Universal movies you mentioned on film but I think CREATURE FROM THE BLACK LAGOON was available on VHS tape in anaglyph at one time. I saw HONDO in anaglyph on standard TV once and it was horrid. I sure would love to get my hands on a regular 3-D Blu Ray of that movie and it was unfortunate Paramount decided to release it in 2-D only a few years ago.

-Claude

Posted by Robert Furmanek (Member # 7026) on 06-02-2014, 11:38 AM:

Believe it or not, some people are still claiming to have seen JAWS 3-D in anaglyph when it was first released theatrically. When I ask for documented evidence, they come up with anaglyph glasses from the Jaws trading card set!

Frank: I would love to have 3-D recreations done on both the Yosemite short from 1922 and IN TUNE WITH TOMORROW from 1939: two very historic 3-D shorts that only survive flat. The problem is the cost and who would pay for it? I'm afraid that's WAY out of our budget.

Here's some info on the Yosemite film: http://www.3dfilmarchive.com/home/holygrail

Posted by Steve Moore (Member # 4753) on 06-02-2014, 01:04 PM:

Thanks for that suggestion too Claude, just trying to locate a copy of that too, and been looking up images of that theatre in Honolulu too; looks nice.

Posted by Jim Cassedy (Member # 4115) on 06-02-2014, 01:12 PM:

If you can find this issue online it's a great 'read'.
(This one is from my collection - July 1983)

Also, if you're really interested in the 3D topic, SMPTE has a really comprehensive
book titled "3D Cinema & Television Technology" which is a complilation of
all their papers on these topics from 1916-2012. It's a big book; almost 600pgs.
When I got my copy last year, it cost me $89.00us. Last time I looked the
price had dropped to $45.00, and there were even some used copies on Amazon.

Posted by Lionel Fouillen (Member # 1475) on 06-30-2014, 07:56 AM:

@Frank Angel

As you pointed out, polarization is used for 3D at the movies, not anaglyphs. However there is one IMAX 15/70 film which used anaglyphs: WE ARE BORN OF STARS. I saw it at the Bradford (UK) museum in 1986. Unfortunately I do not have the glasses anymore. I remember they were much bigger than the model shown on the pictures you posted, with one red glass and the other looking rather greener than blue.

Posted by Jeffry L. Johnson (Member # 453) on 06-30-2014, 01:50 PM:

nWave also produced some 1570 prints in anaglyph, ColorCode 3-D (yellow/blue). ENCOUNTER IN THE THIRD DIMENSION is an example.

Posted by Steve Moore (Member # 4753) on 06-30-2014, 02:11 PM:

Claude, I purchased and watch Prometheus at the weekend and the 3D and sound was very good, so thanks for that; however still not Michael Jackson or last buffalo - but very good on my Epson home projector.

Posted by Dick Vaughan (Member # 540) on 07-01-2014, 09:45 AM:

quote: Lionel Fouillen
As you pointed out, polarization is used for 3D at the movies, not anaglyphs. However there is one IMAX 15/70 film which used anaglyphs: WE ARE BORN OF STARS. I saw it at the Bradford (UK) museum in 1986. Unfortunately I do not have the glasses anymore. I remember they were much bigger than the model shown on the pictures you posted, with one red glass and the other looking rather greener than blue.

WE stil have some of the glasses in the basement here in Bradford. Will dig some out when I'm down there later this week.

Posted by Claude S. Ayakawa (Member # 1401) on 07-01-2014, 03:11 PM:

Steve, I already mentioned these titles in previous post on this topic but is doing so again to make you aware how good they are. The IMAX titles UNDER THE SEA and THE HUBBLE TELESCOPE are both excellent. Another nice thing about these two Warner Brothers IMAX titles as well as others they have released in IMAX and now on 3-D Blu Ray is the retention of the IIMAX theatrical trailer with the "count down". It looks great in 3-D on my set and also sounds fantastic.

Other great discs in 3-D are THE GREAT GATSBY, HOUSE OF WAX and CREATURE FROM THE BLACK LAGOON. The "Creature" disc at one time was only available in a box set with other classic Universal horror movies like Frankenstein, Dracula and the Mummy but CFTBL is now available in a stand alone set.

-Claude