Film-Tech Forum ARCHIVE: Anyone have a Kinoton/Philips FP-23 Portable?

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Posted by Alastair Bowlie-Evans (Member # 8327) on 06-24-2014, 10:57 AM:

I have just got one of these, but it looks to be incomplete.

I'm trying to work out how the belt-drive to the reel-tables works. At the moment I think I have a pulley--or two--missing on the Mech....

Any pictures, diagrams or operator manuals would be a great help...

Ive checked the usual Google/images and there appears a few variations--None like mine unfortunately.
Mine has a Timing-belt rather than a V-Belt from the motor....

Posted by Mark Gulbrandsen (Member # 72) on 06-24-2014, 11:32 AM:

It would help to see a picture or two of your mechanism to see what is missing. All Phillips mechanism's beginning with the FP-20 through the PK-60 and so on are basically much the same so it can't be too hard to figure out. Motor arrangements will be different. As to weather you can still get the missing pieces will remain to be seen though. Hopefully you have a good well stocked Kinoton supplier in your part of the globe. Kinoton ceased all film operations a couple months back.

The fact that you have timing belt drive suggest that you have a synchronous motor drive which is a much better mouse trap. Your projector will run at exact speed. Intermittent flywheel has to turn 1440 rpm so you could work backwards from that if you look at the plate on the motor and see what that RPM is (usually 1500 or 1800 on synchronous motors).

Mark

Posted by Pete Naples (Member # 761) on 06-24-2014, 12:03 PM:

UK Kinoton dealer here.

I might have some info on the FP23, we've 2 still in commission in Cumbria.

No FP23 specific spares in stock, however Kinoton have not dumped stock in Germany.

Posted by Alastair Bowlie-Evans (Member # 8327) on 06-24-2014, 12:29 PM:

Here's a picture of the mech rear, this was sent by the vendor before I received it--

Posted by Mitchell Dvoskin (Member # 751) on 06-24-2014, 01:29 PM:

From this web site.

My FP-23 has the same white roller for the chain in the bottom right corner as yours, but my FP-23 has a takeup powered by an external separate dedicated motor. From the picture, it appears that for your configuration, that white roller assembly needs to be replaced with the correct roller assembly.

Posted by Mark Gulbrandsen (Member # 72) on 06-24-2014, 02:38 PM:

That's definitely Synchronous drive. It was likely running with an external film transport of some sort. Hopefully Pete can get you fixed up and at least you do have the slot for the belt in your casing.

Mark

Posted by Pete Naples (Member # 761) on 06-24-2014, 03:10 PM:

I think that may be a sprag clutch. I'll see what I can find out.

It might be an sensible option to use and electric motor to drive the take-up, or friction in Kinoton speak.

Posted by Mark Gulbrandsen (Member # 72) on 06-24-2014, 04:49 PM:

It's also mounted further into the corner. Probably so the belt can be threaded through the pulley easily. So you may well need a slightly longer chain there...

Mark

Posted by Mitchell Dvoskin (Member # 751) on 06-25-2014, 01:53 PM:

The photo below is from my FP23, which does not use a take-up belt, and does not have the belt pulley, as it has a external powered takeup. My projector came from Boston Light & Sound, which ran Kinoton USA for many years, so I assume that the mechanism is correct. Alastair's seems to have the white roller in the wrong spot.

Posted by Alastair Bowlie-Evans (Member # 8327) on 06-25-2014, 02:29 PM:

Hi Michell,--

Interesting to see --Yet another version!

I'm assuming the timing-belt running down out of shot goes to the drive-motor of your machine?

At the moment--I'm contemplating making up a bracket/Adaptor to enable the Mech to be fixed to my Cinemeccanica V9 stand

(The Vic 9 is just too big to install anywhere that would be useful)

I can then adapt/modify the original Philips Kintoton reel-tables and mount them above and below the mech.
--For the lamp,--I have a cunning plan......

I'm thinking I'm going to try a sewing-machine motor as take-up through a variable supply--Geared/belted right I'm hoping it'll drive a 6K foot reel....

(This machine is just SO TYPICALLY Philips, having come from TV Video repair myself originally years ago, the construction and general feel is just that quirky Philips magic
Only Philips would use bits of string and springs for instance to lace up a video-recorder!....)

Posted by Alastair Bowlie-Evans (Member # 8327) on 06-28-2014, 04:10 AM:

Looks like I'm going to use a separate take-up motor for this one.

Saves a lot of messing round trying to find the correct pulleys and belts etc.
I'm going to make up a stand/base for it and attach the take-up to that. Pay-off,--Sure I can sort something for that.

Main parts needed now are a couple of Aperture-Plates, Anyone got a couple floating round?--S/H ones would do I think ones from FP-20 and 30 will fit.....