Film-Tech Forum ARCHIVE: Drive-In Projectors

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Posted by Steve Matz (Member # 1890) on 08-08-2014, 05:58 PM:

Little Quiz Here; Some of you up here probably weren't even born when the DRIVE-IN's started to disappear in the late 70's. But at the height of their Popularity there were over 10,000 of them Nation wide... [Eek!]

QUESTION: Which of the Projection Systems listed below dominated DRIVE-IN Theaters at the height of their Glory..The Answer will Surprise You [Confused]

BRENKERT

CENTURY

DEVRY

MOTIOGRAPH

SIMPLEX

BARCO - just kidding [Wink]

Posted by Tony Ratcliff (Member # 1196) on 08-08-2014, 07:14 PM:

My guess is Brenkert.

Posted by Joe Elliott (Member # 4006) on 08-08-2014, 07:32 PM:

The drive-ins in our chain had Simplexes. The drive-ins I have visited since I moved to Florida have also been Simplexes. My guess, Kodak.

Posted by Mark Gulbrandsen (Member # 72) on 08-08-2014, 08:47 PM:

Motiograph for sure.

Posted by Jim Cassedy (Member # 4115) on 08-08-2014, 09:05 PM:

I'm guessing Brenkert, only because I seem to see a lot of them in old pictures
of drive-in booths.

Back in the mid 1970's, "the union" sent me to fill in at several drive-ins
on Long Island when the regular operators were on vacation, and as I recall
I wound up running some Simplex XL's and a couple of Motiograph AA's on
those jobs. (With those friggin' huge water-cooled Ashcraft carbon-arc
lamphouses powered by DC motor generators. )

But I'm sticking with Brenkert with my guess as the post popular type of
drive-in projectorthingy.

Posted by James Westbrook (Member # 3690) on 08-09-2014, 03:04 AM:

The ones in my area were Century, with Simplex a close second.

Posted by Monte L Fullmer (Member # 2797) on 08-09-2014, 03:17 AM:

My Drive-In That I began in this crazy industry back in the Fall of 1969 and finished in 1974 to move on.

In early June of 1976, when the Teton Dam let go, this drive-in took a big hit with the water totally submerging the building. The owner got a new booth and inside out of this from the BOR. Installed with the EPRAD SWORD and the PRO 35. Owner went this way so he can play the first feature over again.

Location has gone through many hands and is currently still open but now is digital with NEC.

Did a drive-in in Pocatello, ID .. being the Starlight and that was a full Motiograph booth.

This Eastern part of the state, the indoors and the Drive-ins had more Motiographs than Simplex and only one theatre had Centurys.

The now extinct dealer out of SLC prob had a huge marketing campaign to sell Motiographs.

P.S. - the two drive-ins in this area presently have the BARCO DP2K-32B installed. One originally had an Century SA and the other was an Simplex XL install.

-Monte

Posted by Steve Matz (Member # 1890) on 08-09-2014, 02:38 PM:

DRIVE-IN THEATER HISTORY [beer]

http://www.driveintheater.com/history/

http://www.driveintheater.com/history/2000.htm
Video on Future of Drive-in's 2000+

Posted by Gordon McLeod (Member # 33) on 08-09-2014, 03:04 PM:

In Ontario it was Simplex followed by Century
newer driveins had Phillips SuperFP7 or some had Vic 8s
the popular xenon was the Strong X60 or the ORC horizontal

Posted by Jack Ondracek (Member # 1466) on 08-13-2014, 09:48 PM:

I wouldn't have thought Motiographs were a good choice for drive-ins. I was always told the barrel shutters were light hogs.

Over the years, some "experts" have insisted the other three were best, for various sundry reasons.

In the end, I wonder if it wasn't more of a regional thing. If you were in the territory of a Century rep, that's probably what was in many of that area's drive-ins. Out here, we had a Motiograph dealer, and you wouldn't believe the walls of Motiograph indoor amps... 6, 8, 10 of them, cobbled together to feed one field.

Over on the eastern side of the state, there was a lot of Simplex.

We had quite a few turnkey RCA installs... Brenkert projectors, Enarc, or Core-Lite lamps and full-RCA sound gear. Great amplifiers. I know of two that are still in service.

For me, I didn't see a lot of difference between Brenkert & Simplex. I heard the talk about "f" this and "f" that, but the fact is that most of us had (have) underlit screens and always will.

The Century's seemed to look as good as any of them, but in a dusty environment, I tended to avoid them. Liked the sealed machines better in those places.

I started with Brenkerts and eventually shifted to XLs. Still unhappy about all the nice 35mm gear in my hangar.

Posted by Steve Matz (Member # 1890) on 08-13-2014, 10:07 PM:

Don't tell John Eickhof that;Whom I consider an Expert concerning MOTIOGRAPH Projectors. Actually when Cinemascope came along in 53/54 Some Drive-in's that had built Larger Scope Screens and had Long Projection Throws(Like our Motor-Vu Drive-in)pulled out their Brenkerts and Simplex's for Motio AAA...

The Motio AAA was their answer for 4" diameter lenses, the AA had the conventional 2 25/32 lens holder, and with the larger screens and longer throws, the faster speed 4" lenses made a big difference in brilliance and sharpness plus the ultra high intensity arcs were at a faster focal speed too, so the combination made Motio the preferred drive-in machine. Plus the barrel shutter due to tight gearing was able to pass 20% more light than a Brenkert or Simplex E-7. (even though it's size and location required lamp manufacturers to make longer working distance reflectors so they could pass light past this highly efficient shutter) The pitfall of the Motio was the aluminum cast shutter would absorb so much heat from the arc, the bearings were a constant headache.

Posted by Sam D. Chavez (Member # 1841) on 08-13-2014, 10:09 PM:

The one undeniable advantage of XL's was the 5 to 1 movement for lots of extra light. XL's already held an advantage in light output due to the conical shutter design.

There were plenty of Motiograph's in service in drive in's and Jack is spot on about it being regional preference.

There were FP20's and DP75's n Oklahoma and southern states. I would have expected this in New York City, not Oklahoma City.

Brenkert's were hard to beat and my favorite for drive Ins. Don't really know why, they just seemed a great fit and always a very still picture.

I'd bet there were more Brenkert than anything else, certainly in the western states.

Posted by Jack Ondracek (Member # 1466) on 08-13-2014, 10:10 PM:

Interesting.

Thanks for that bit of history. I had one of those 4" anamorphics. It did toss a good picture.

Posted by Louis Bornwasser (Member # 3063) on 08-15-2014, 07:08 AM:

Ballantyne was the king of drive ins. I mean the company, not the projector. They were also the US importer of the Norelco/Phillips machines. Everything else: sound, switch panels, amps, etc they made. Lots of FP-20 with Strong lamphouses and Ballantyne rectifiers. A product of the times: 1955 to 1966.

Posted by Ken Leibert (Member # 7150) on 08-15-2014, 11:29 AM:

Super 29 Drive-In, Fairfax,Va.
Century with gigantic water cooled Ashcraft Dyn-Arcs
and Strong Bi-power rectifier. Complete RCA sound system.

Manassas Drive-In, Manassas, Va.
Motiograph projectors and sound with Enarc lamps

Posted by John Eickhof (Member # 323) on 08-15-2014, 01:26 PM:

I think it's purely a regional thing considering the individual supply dealers and available product. What I can recall, the norm was that whatever contractor did an indoor in town, the drive-in had the same brand. I would say that RCA-Brenkert was probably more prevailent as RCA had a rather large number of dealers and service reps. Motio could equal or beat RCA simply by cost to the end user and the machines were workhorses. As for sound, it was pretty hard to hurt an old Altec A-287W 275 watt amp, or the Ballantyne high power drive in amp, Motiograph did it with banks of MA-7505 amps (25w each) RCA would come in next with a good selection of high power amps. (75w and 150w) Of course I always preferred the RCA or Simplex soundheads over the Motio or Ballantyne. For me it's a toss up between Brenkert and Motio. Amazingly the Brenkerts could handle the largest lamps without a water cooled trap!

Posted by Mike Blakesley (Member # 26) on 08-15-2014, 02:27 PM:

We used to to have Motiograph projectors, and the local drive in (different owner) had Brenkerts. We had Ashcraft lamphouses but I'm not sure what the drive in had -- I know they were different though.

Posted by Steve Matz (Member # 1890) on 08-15-2014, 02:29 PM:

RCA Supposedly owned BRENKERT since July 1945 but apparently kept the BRENKERT name when the BX60/62 came out in 1948. I don't know if that was RCA's choice or some contractial Deal
made with BRENKERT when they Sold out. This RCA 100 or BX100 came along in 1950 and started carrying RCA Badges.This model was more prevalent in as many Drive-in's as I have past visited over the decades across the US; I have seen more of this Model than any other Brenkert(i.e. BX80,BX40,BX60) in the one's I visited; I remember our old SAGE Drive-in having these 100 Models...

Another thing that is surprising because no one even mentioned it on this thread is how many Drive-ins had DEVRY 12000 Projectors. A lot;and they weren't just in the Illinois Area. I have a list from Devry showing Drive-ins in Kentucky,Ohio, Georgia,Indiana, and deep South States using DEVRY Equipment.

The outdoor Theater Business didn't even really take off til after WWII. From 1933 to 1939 there were only a total of 18 Drive-ins across the US. And only one in California{Burbank) Before we entered the War in 1941 DI Theaters had grown to around 150 but because of Wartime Shortages,Rationing,etc. a number of theaters closed down for 2 yrs and more. So it wasn't until 1946 before things took off. So if you were opening a Drive-in in 1946 Your Projection Choices might be BRENKERT BX40,SIMPLEX E7,CENTURY C,MOTIOGRAPH AA,DEVRY 12000 or even a WENZEL ACE if your pinching pennies. [Roll Eyes]

I did find after a little Digging that a number of theaters like our MOTOR-VU Drive-in who built larger than Normal CINEMASCOPE Screens in 53/54 and had longer Projection Distances ditched their Simplex's Brenkerts,etc. for the MOTIOGRAPH AAA

What is Ironic is the most popular Drive-in Projector Companies ended up all going out of business in the mid 1950's...

The RCA 100 theorectically a Brenkert was a very popular
projector in the 50's and on...

Posted by Sam D. Chavez (Member # 1841) on 08-15-2014, 03:39 PM:

quote: Steve Matz
I did find after a little Digging that a number of theaters like our MOTOR-VU Drive-in who built larger than Normal CINEMASCOPE Screens in 53/54 and had longer Projection Distances ditched their Simplex's Brenkerts,etc. for the MOTIOGRAPH AAA

That must have been some salesman if he talked people out of perfectly good projectors to put in AAA's just for the 4 inch lens barrel. Why else would someone do this? Don't think this happened very often as there were not a lot of AAA's sold.

I don't buy the idea Motiographs had more light throughput because of a barrell shutter. This style shutter(s) forced the use of lamphouses with slower reflectors. If someone can walk me through what I'm missing I'd listen.

Posted by Mark Gulbrandsen (Member # 72) on 08-15-2014, 04:33 PM:

You're right Sam. By the time the 4" triple A's appeared the double drum shutter had long gone the way of the shiter. It was only via the double drum shutters that they could have been a little bit more efficient. The mess in gearing required and subsequent bearing failures killed that idea quickly. Then the troubles really started... the flicker issue caused by the single blade shutter and Rube Goldberg gear train was NEVER solved according to a late friend that worked for them. The AA shutter can be a pain to get out... especially the tapered shutter set screw that always gets baked into place under all the crud. In the end the AA and Triple A is what killed off Motiograph. They ended projector production first but were around for a few more years to supply parts for them and their sound systems. Then Wolk bought them at the fire sale. All in all the last models of Motiographs were piles of crap even though many ran well after the turn of the century. The economics of running crap that long simply doesn't make sense. I have a first year production Model K here and it is a far superior mechanism, much simpler, very robust and quiet running. The only draw back was flipping the back out to thread through the gate. The image out of the K is as good as anything out there.

Mark

Posted by Steve Matz (Member # 1890) on 08-15-2014, 07:02 PM:

Here we go again;Reminds me of Ford & Chevy Lovers telling each other their Car is a Piece of $HIT. I could give a Rats A$$ about What Drive-in used what projector and for What Reason. It's all water under the Bridge now anyway because the Amount of Drive-in's left in the Country is Trivial.I'm simply trying to do
some research on Something that probably isn't 100% because most of the people are dead that had any involvement in the Older Drive-in Movement...

Every Projector Mfger had Good/Bad Points of every Model they produced. Did any of them make the Perfect Projector.NO! Just like Human Beings nobody's perfect by a Long Shot...
As far as the MOTIO issue Goes...Talk that out with EICKHOF...

Posted by John Eickhof (Member # 323) on 08-15-2014, 10:59 PM:

I think Mike hit it on the head.. different owners would encourage competition amongst dealers, thus the drive in may not have wanted to have the same equipment as his indoor competitor! I can agree with Mark on the motios as for the shutter issues and the longer working distance lamps needed. I am amused that with a few exceptions, most RCA and Motio booths had giant old trashcan lamps (ashcraft) they were carbon hogs but tests in the 50s showed they beat the lumens of an equal sized Strong / National lamp! (Using same size sticks and current) Of course Simplex with it's ties to Strong & the National name seemed to always have excelites or mighty 90s they too used up carbon at a high rate! But the best drive in picture I have seen behind brenkerts was at the Roper Drive In Fallon NV. they had BX-60s air cooled with RCA Dynarc (Ashcraft Super High) running 95 amps on a motorgenny lighting up a 105ft wide picture! It looked like the picture was painted on the screen! Amazingly the film was not very warm to the touch coming out of the gate! I'm with Sam though when it comes to the best light transfer, you can't beat an XL with a 75 degree shutter and no visible ghost on the screen! The GoWest Drive In in Missoula had the best picture I've seen from an XL! Using Strong Mighty 90s it had a 120 ft picture and over 500 ft throw! The traps and lamps were water cooled though. They never heated up a print either! Probably the most destructive lamp in my opinion was the Xetron HX-4000 (xenon of course)if mis adjusted it would fry a print in one pass!I had serviced a couple drive ins in California that had Strong UHI (Ultra-High-Intensity, 175-195 amps) and they put out a lot of light as well as the Peerless HyCandescent condenser lamps, they were used in some of Hollywoods largest theatres. I remember the current minimizers and the loud pop when you would strike the 13.6mm and 9/16 sticks! I still contend the Motio was a good machine but it was priced to it's overall quality. The 4" lens may have been a selling point, but there were 4" lensholder kits for Simplex Standards, Supers, E-7s, as well as Wenzel and Ballantyne so it couldn't have been just the lenses. More likely a favorable package price for the install offered by the dealer! And of course the always vigilant money minded theatre owner!

Posted by Mark Gulbrandsen (Member # 72) on 08-16-2014, 11:01 AM:

It's also interesting to note that even if a manufacturer was located in a certain metropolitan area as Motiograph was in Chicago that doesn't mean you're going to find a lot their projectors there. Chicago and surrounding area was predominately an RCA-Brenkert town with Simplex's Century's and Motio's sprinkled in here and there.

John... There were still remains of the Roper DI last time I was in Fallon a couple years ago.

Mark

Posted by Robert Koch (Member # 3728) on 08-16-2014, 01:28 PM:

Mark:
I installed the Roper D.I. in, I believe,1953.

Posted by John Eickhof (Member # 323) on 08-16-2014, 10:54 PM:

Hi Bob... I figured it was probably your doing!! The indoor had Motio Ks then BX-60s (You probably updated them about the same time) I took out the BX-60s years ago and placed XLs on 9030s in there.Still running them today.

Mark, I was at Fallon a couple weeks ago visiting the Ericksons, the roper is all but gone now vandals have torn up the booth and snack bar and someone ?? made off with the three 75watt RCA amps I was looking for!!

Posted by Louis Bornwasser (Member # 3063) on 08-17-2014, 07:22 AM:

We had a number of drive ins with Century C that went to Motiograph AA when the Super 135 was installed. A net increase in light, but a lot more when I went back to Century SA. Boy were they pi$$ed.

Chicago: Remember, Brenkert was also made there.

Posted by Steve Matz (Member # 1890) on 08-17-2014, 11:44 AM:

BRENKERTS MFGed in both Detroit and Chicago [Confused]

Posted by Donald Brown (Member # 5427) on 10-22-2014, 05:27 PM:

Did anyone ever operate or observe the Strong 170 Constellation?
I had the opportunity to remove several of these from drive-in service nearly 25 years ago, but I never observed them in operation, and I have never encountered a pair since.
Don Brown

Posted by Sam D. Chavez (Member # 1841) on 10-22-2014, 10:48 PM:

I worked a couple of these. Basically, a better ventilated version of the Futura. Ran very smoothly with a nice controlled tail flame due I suppose to the penthouse fan.

Power was via Hetrner transverter generator.