Film-Tech Forum ARCHIVE: Old cinema reopening

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Posted by Fredrik Sandstrom (Member # 8171) on 09-12-2014, 08:17 AM:

Hi,

This is my first post here, but many of you know me from film collector forums. I've been a collector of 16mm films for eight years and also 35mm since a few years back. I also hold a part-time job as projectionist at a local culture center of sorts, where we hold non-commercial film screenings and festivals.

But the reason for this post, is that an old cinema in my town of Turku, Finland, has decided to open again. They more or less closed in 1994, but never completely; film festivals and occasional events by movie clubs have been arranged in this place every year. I have talked about this on other forums, but long story short: They have now reopened and show movies every evening, but can't really do it properly at this time since they don't have equipment to show DCP. They have a home-brewn solution for showing digital material (poorly), but 35mm film can be shown properly.

The problem with the 35mm is that their projectionist is 81 years old and has now finally decided that he won't do it any more. And this is where I come in, because they came to me and asked me to step in.

I have now made myself familiar with the equipment in the booth and come to the conclusion that I can certianly put on a good show there, so I have promised to help out from time to time. At the moment, they have a few weeks of (awful-looking) digital shows planned, but now that they have a new projectionist they can again book 35mm material. (I don't agree with them that it's a good idea to run the digital shows until they have proper DCP equipment, but that's not really my business.)

I'm hoping to get some help from some old-timers here! The thing here that I have no experience with from before is carbon arc, but the old projectionist showed me how to work with them, and it seemed simple enough. [Smile]

But one thing I noticed is that the reflectors are quite dirty, so my first question will be how to clean them without scratching or doing other damage.

Equipment-wise, everything is pretty much the way it was when the theater was built in 1956. [Cool]

Well, the sound has been upgraded; this was the first theater in my town to get Dolby stereo back in the day, and the CP50 from this time is still in the booth, though it's a CP55 that is currently in use. Only A-type NR (they closed in 1994, remember), and exciter lamps. This is not a problem for the time being, because I'm sure the 35mm films we will screen for now will all be much older movies.

The projectors are Victoria VR, a model I can't find any information about online. Anyone here familiar with 1950s Cinemeccanica machines? The lamphouses are Zenith 350.

The booth is fireproof but the magazines for running nitrate have been removed (but remain in the building), and the arms lengthened to accomodate large reels. The lamphouses also accept long carbons so we can run hour-long reels.

Adding a picture of the booth. Hoping to be able to use your expertise for help in the coming months! [Big Grin]

Posted by Randy Stankey (Member # 64) on 09-12-2014, 09:54 AM:

Many old projection booths, especially vintage booths, have different ways of doing things. From the mix and setup of equipment to the way that equipment is actually used, every booth is different than the next.

If you know how to drive a car, you can drive almost any car from a Ford to a Ferrari but not necessarily so with theaters. It's more like going from a Ferrari to an 18-wheeler truck.

You need a special license to drive a truck but not so with theaters. Anybody who can convince the boss that he can operate a machine can work in a theater with little or no special training.

I think it is important for anybody who wants to work in a projection booth to get training from a person who has experience operating in THAT PARTICULAR theater.

Thus, my suggestion is to see if you can somehow convince the "old guy" who used to run that theater to come in and give you some lessons.

Can you somehow pay him... or bribe him with coffee and donuts... to come in, spend a little time with you and show you how things were done in that theater?

He doesn't have to operate. You would do the work. He would just sit in a chair, drink coffee (or the tasty beverage of his choice) and be the "chief technical adviser."

I have no doubt that you have the knowledge and the work ethic to run the equipment and to do it right but there are a million little details that can't be learned except from another person who has actually done the job before you.

Besides, I bet there are some great stories from "the old days" that the guy could tell you.

My best advice is to learn the job from somebody who knows.
If you have to buy the "old guy" a bottle of wine, a box of cigars or whatever it takes to get him interested in spending a night or two with you in the projection room, the money spent would be more valuable than any information you can get from the Internet.

Good luck in your new theater!

I'm glad to hear of that there are still people interested in presenting movies the "right" way! [thumbsup]

Posted by Fredrik Sandstrom (Member # 8171) on 09-12-2014, 11:23 AM:

Thanks Randy! We already did something like what you suggest: When the old guy ran his last screening, I was in the booth, and actually did most of the work, under his direction.

It was less educational than I had hoped, partly because he's rather old and weak, and has a particularly weak voice, so when the projector was running, I couldn't understand much of what he was saying. [Roll Eyes]

As for the million little details, there's actually another guy who's still aboard and basically knows how everything in the house works. Asking him for help has been most instructive. He's rather absent-minded and unpractical though. I believe that him actually running film would be an absolute disaster, and I believe he knows that too, and that's the reason he's not projectionist. [Cool]

Posted by Kenneth Wuepper (Member # 1174) on 09-12-2014, 02:34 PM:

Hello Friedrik,

Could you please post a closeup of the projector head. Open the penthouse reader and take a picture of it as well.

These will assist in determining what machines you have.

The right projector has a film guidance roller that would indicate the presence of a platter. Since the picture does not show it, is there a platter in that booth?

Thank you for your interest in film done right.

KEN

Posted by Fredrik Sandstrom (Member # 8171) on 09-12-2014, 03:09 PM:

Ah, that roller is there only because I had just been running a test loop before taking that picture. No platter, this has always been a changeover house.

Here's a picture of the projector head. The penthouse mag soundhead is closed but I can take a picture of that next time I'm there.

Posted by Louis Bornwasser (Member # 3063) on 09-12-2014, 03:32 PM:

35mm V8?

Posted by Mark Gulbrandsen (Member # 72) on 09-12-2014, 04:08 PM:

Not a Vic 8R but just an earlier version Vic. It's a Vic 5R which is half of a Vic 10 and it looks exactly like a baby Vic 10 would look... I bet it even has a drum shutter.

Mark

Posted by Steve Matz (Member # 1890) on 09-12-2014, 05:42 PM:

quote: Randy Stankey
Can you somehow pay him... or bribe him with coffee and donuts

I think that only works with COPS;Not positive about Old School Projectionists though [Confused]

Posted by Randy Stankey (Member # 64) on 09-12-2014, 05:45 PM:

LOL [Big Grin]

I did mention a box of cigars.
Didn't a lot of old school operators light their cigars from the carbons? [Big Grin]

Posted by Mark Gulbrandsen (Member # 72) on 09-12-2014, 06:57 PM:

In most big cities you weren't allowed to smoke in the booth.

Posted by Steve Matz (Member # 1890) on 09-12-2014, 08:29 PM:

That is a Nice Hygenic Looking Projection Booth Fredrik with a pleasant looking atmosphere [beer]

Now compare yours to this Gloomy Booth that makes you feel like Steve McQueen in "PAPILLON" [Eek!]

I'm sure you would much rather work in The Papillon Booth;Right [Confused]

The Coconuts are in the plastic pail;becareful of the Lobster! [Eek!]

Posted by Fredrik Sandstrom (Member # 8171) on 09-13-2014, 12:48 AM:

quote: Mark Gulbrandsen
Not a Vic 8R but just an earlier version Vic. It's a Vic 5R which is half of a Vic 10 and it looks exactly like a baby Vic 10 would look... I bet it even has a drum shutter.

Ah, so the V in VR should be read as a roman numeral? Below is a closeup where the model designation and serial number is visible. And yes, it has a drum shutter.

Funny you should mention the Vic 10, because there were actually two Vic 10's in this booth in addition to these machines, for a few short years in the 1960's, for 70mm. The VRs served as subtitle projectors when running 70mm. Apparently 70mm prints were not subtitled then.

Posted by Monte L Fullmer (Member # 2797) on 09-13-2014, 12:50 AM:

That VIC VR reminds me of a VIC IV-E setup the way the rollers are set up past the INT sprocket and that little trap and gate setup.

With No.2 machine having that roller on the upper spindle, there has to be a film transport unit behind it out of picture.

Posted by Fredrik Sandstrom (Member # 8171) on 09-13-2014, 01:05 AM:

quote: Monte L Fullmer
With No.2 machine having that roller on the upper spindle, there has to be a film transport unit behind it out of picture.

No! Like I said in an earlier post, I used that roller just to run a test loop, nothing else. It is not normally there.

Posted by Phillip Grace (Member # 2262) on 09-13-2014, 01:47 AM:

Hello Fredrik
If you download the manual for the Cinemeccanica Victoria 8 you will get a very good sense of how to operate and maintain the projectors. They are high quality machines and will repay your efforts.
You should also find that most of the parts from the other models will fit your machines. This will be especially useful if it comes to upgrading the sound readers to red light.

As to the carbon arcs, the method for cleaning the mirrors depends on what type of mirror is installed. The mirrors may be one of several types.
1/"Cold Light" type ie first surface with dichroic coating on either metal or glass forms, which are very delicate. These should only be cleaned according to manufacturers instructions.
2/Conventional glass or pyrex forms with a silver rear coating. The glass surface protects the reflective coating and may be cleaned with a mild abrasive paste. We used a product here called "Kiwi Glint". Possibly a mild metal polish would work. Small copper droplets could be detached from the mirror surface using a thin flexible razor blade bent into the curve.
3/ Metal formed mirror with highly polished surface. A liquid type metal cleaner is suitable for these. The local type was called "Sidol". Some optical supply houses have information on how to clean these first-surface types.
The most important thing to do before anything else is to distinguish between the "Cold Light" Dichroic coated types and the conventional polished metal ones, because the dichroic coatings are very delicate. Cold light mirrors are designed to reflect visible light towards the aperture and transmit heat through the mirror away from the film. This effect can be seen on those with transparent formers when aiming a torch at the surface. There will be a degree of transmission through the mirror from either side.

Best of luck!
Phillip.

Posted by Magnus Eriksson (Member # 6085) on 09-13-2014, 05:57 AM:

quote: Fredrik Sandstrom
The booth is fireproof but the magazines for running nitrate have been removed (but remain in the building), and the arms lengthened to accomodate large reels.

I did that! It must have been 20 years ago. Nice to see that the Theatre still exists [Smile]

Is the lady that owned the Theatre those Days still around?
/M.E.

Posted by Buck Wilson (Member # 5885) on 09-13-2014, 11:22 AM:

quote: Monte L Fullmer
That VIC VR reminds me of a VIC IV-E setup the way the rollers are set up past the INT sprocket and that little trap and gate setup.

With No.2 machine having that roller on the upper spindle, there has to be a film transport unit behind it out of picture.

I was thinking the same thing about the 4E. Same exact thread path. It took me no short amount of time to figure that post-intermittent thread path my first time around it.

Posted by Rick Raskin (Member # 1561) on 09-13-2014, 01:24 PM:

quote: Phillip Grace
Conventional glass or pyrex forms with a silver rear coating. The glass surface protects the reflective coating and may be cleaned with a mild abrasive paste.

"It hasn't scratched yet."

Posted by Randy Stankey (Member # 64) on 09-13-2014, 02:30 PM:

That's what I was taught to use. But make sure it's the "Original" version.

http://www.bonami.com/index.php/products/powder_cleanser/

quote:
Bon Ami 1886 Formula

When Bon Ami Original 1886 Formula was created it was state-of-the art, crafted to care for homes and kitchens with a gentle effectiveness that was unlike anything else on the market. The recipe was simple: tallow soap and feldspar. Bon Ami’s innovation was adding the more gentle abrasive powder feldspar to make a soap that was effective at cleaning but gentle on surfaces. We still make the 1886 Formula Cleaning Powder the same way. We find that many customers prefer this formula for specialty uses.

Without knowing exactly what the reflector is, I was hesitant to recommend. Given the vintage, I would expect a glass reflector but not 100% certain.

Posted by Monte L Fullmer (Member # 2797) on 09-13-2014, 02:43 PM:

And how many of us carbon arc projectionists had, at least, one can of Bon Ami in every booth we worked in. I would take a single side razor blade to pick out the copper spits from the reflector, then lightly scrape the surface of the reflector with that razor blade to remove the surface residue before the scrub down with a wet paste of Bon Ami on a kitchen towel to get that glass spotless.

We would let that paste dry to a haze then with another kitchen towel, we would then buff out the haze to expose a brilliant shine coming from the reflector.

We had reflectors in our Ashcrafts that, outside of the craters created by the copper spits, was still highly reflective in a good years of service - no haze, no burn issues.

-Monte

Posted by Randy Stankey (Member # 64) on 09-13-2014, 03:10 PM:

The guy who was teaching me asked when was the last time I cleaned the reflectors. I asked him, "With what?" He said, right there on the shelf, ya' big dummy..." [Wink]

In a handmae, wooden tool caddy, sitting on the shelf there was a can of Bon Ami, a couple of cotton, cloth diapers, a pack of razor blades and a tin cup.

Posted by Kenneth Wuepper (Member # 1174) on 09-13-2014, 04:09 PM:

BEWARE!

The di-chroic coatings of many reflectors of Borosilicate (PYREX) are on the arc side of the reflector. Any abrasive substance will remove and permanently damage these reflectors.

The coating also absorbs moisture so the best way to dry it was with anhydrous alcohol. Every Saturday before the matinee it was the first shift operator's job to clean the reflectors in both lamps. The lamps were Strong UHI carbon arcs.

Posted by Fredrik Sandstrom (Member # 8171) on 09-13-2014, 07:39 PM:

quote: Magnus Eriksson
I did that! It must have been 20 years ago. Nice to see that the Theatre still exists
Is the lady that owned the Theatre those Days still around?

Haha, awesome! [beer]

The place closed down 20 years ago, so it must have been MORE than 20 years ago that you did that modification. Yes, the old lady still owns the place.

Posted by Mark Gulbrandsen (Member # 72) on 09-13-2014, 10:42 PM:

Fredrick, There was also a V8r version of the V8 35/70 projector. It was 35mm only and some times with mag penthouse. That's very interesting these ran subtitles in conjunction with 70mm showings. I never heard of that being done before...

Mark

Posted by Magnus Eriksson (Member # 6085) on 09-14-2014, 04:46 AM:

quote: Fredrik Sandstrom
The place closed down 20 years ago, so it must have been MORE than 20 years ago

Time flies...

Do you have any more closeups on the soundhead? Especially on the exciter lamp holder. Back in the "old" Days I converted a lot of soundheads with 3W Lumiled LED:s for cyan tracks (I hated lasers, they sounded like dusty vinyl records). A cheap an reliable conversion. Even though I crossed over to the dark (digital) side today I still keep some vintage stuff in the back of the car. Maybe a Vic 5 holder would fit?

There might be an old CP65 with Dolby SR lying around as well, it´s a big car [Wink]

Say hello to the old lady from me!
/M.E.

Posted by Fredrik Sandstrom (Member # 8171) on 10-05-2014, 02:07 PM:

quote: Mark Gulbrandsen
That's very interesting these ran subtitles in conjunction with 70mm showings. I never heard of that being done before...

Then you might find this interesting, I just found the aperture plates for running subtitles!