Film-Tech Forum ARCHIVE: Victoria 5 Questions

This is topic Victoria 5 Questions in forum Film Handlers' Forum at Film-Tech Forum ARCHIVE.

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Posted by Joel Whybrow (Member # 4189) on 11-26-2014, 11:50 AM:

As the title suggests I need some help with a Victoria 5 projector and was wondering if someone could help?

I have the later blue Victoria 5 with the dolby digital and analog readers and have no cables for them, does anyone know where I can get them or is there a manual/service manual for them? I see the dolby analog reader in the Vic 5 manual but no circuit diagram. I have two leads coming from the drum for the LEDs but no idea how I should power them.

Also I have two top mounting reel arms for it and intend to use rollers to guide the film up to the take up arm but it has a "V belt" type pulley on it and I don't know what I need on the projector to run it. They are a light grey colour so I assume they are intended for an older Victoria 5? I have attached pictures of them anyway. I have also included pictures of my Victoria 5, as you can see there is nothing there for the v belt to attach to. The pulley on the arm lines up just past the cogs so seems like there should be an extra pulley on one of them?

Let me know if anyone can help, I'd very much appreciate it!

Posted by Paul H. Rayton (Member # 1817) on 11-26-2014, 05:17 PM:

If I'm not mistaken, those reel arms are not Cinemeccanica-made parts at all, or at least they're not made for a V-5. Without some modifications somewhere along the line, they are probably not going to work. On the V-5 with which I am familiar, the takeup spindle is driven by a gearbelt such as the two others seen in your photo, and that takeup belt is operated off that "available" gear which you see at the very bottom of your lowest photograph.

So, you will either have to change that drive gear to some kind of v-belt drive, OR convert the takeup arm to have some kind of compatible gearbelt drive configuration. That would enable it to work with the factory-normal gearbelt.

Posted by Monte L Fullmer (Member # 2797) on 11-26-2014, 06:14 PM:

You'd have to get Cine 6K arms that has the sprocket pulley attached to the take up spindle since the assembly was tooth belt driven.

Posted by Joel Whybrow (Member # 4189) on 11-26-2014, 07:39 PM:

To be honest, it's hard to believe they are not made for at least one model of Vic 5 as when attached (aside from the pilot pins) everything lines up, the bolt holes, transport path and belt path (if the appropriate pulley was present.

Maybe I'd be better off with something like this fellow:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ovayaeGPyTA

That's pretty much the setup I'm aiming for, except with a Vic 5. Does anyone know what those reel arms are and where I could get them? I've never found anything like them.

Posted by Jonathan Wood (Member # 4614) on 11-27-2014, 02:17 AM:

Hi Joel,is your machine a console or pedestal version? The power supplies for the LEDs are either in the pedestal/base or the console. There are usually two of them and they are light grey in colour. You can use other supplies like the Kelmar , this has the advantage that the psu for the analogue pre amp is built in . ( you will need to power the pre amp board as well as the LEDs , the digital board takes it's power from the CP)

As far as the cable connections are concerned if you PM me I can send you over the pin outs and a list of what you need to get to make the cables up, I've just done the same thing myself .

If you don't have the psu s etc it might be worth going back to where you got it from as they might be lying around somewhere . Have you got the motor running ? The console version will run off 230 vac as it's cap driven but the pedestal/base version had no caps so you will need an inverter. I also have full drawings for both types of machine if it helps.

Jon

Posted by Jonathan Wood (Member # 4614) on 11-27-2014, 04:31 AM:

Ps just realised you prob don't have the console or ped so no caps to run the motor so you will need an inverter. The reel arms look like a bespoke addition although how you will drive them from the projector I don't know. The lowest gear in your pic is what the take up belt attaches to but it obviously won't the pulley on the arm . I think you will need a separate motor ( as in the you tube clip,) to drive the take up .

Posted by Joel Whybrow (Member # 4189) on 11-27-2014, 08:34 AM:

Thanks for the info Jonathan. I only have the head, it's on a trolly much like the video and will be set up near enough the same.

I did have a cap setup to run it but have since bought an inverter though I'm yet to hook it up and figure out how to program it.

As for LED power I assume I would be ok with a generic power supply, I just need to know what to supply them as I don't want to pop them. I'm concerned about polarity also as the cables coming from them are just black and one has a white stripe, not sure if that stripe should be positive or negative.

I will PM you for the pinouts, I'm amazed they aren't readily available online. Much appreciated!

I will try out some motors I think for the take up, probably a torque motor of some kind, though I've no real idea where to start there.

Posted by Jonathan Wood (Member # 4614) on 11-27-2014, 08:54 AM:

Hi Joel
The inverter should be straight forward enough to program. You can use simple locking switches to operate the inverter / motor , I did the same with a kinoton fp40 head, or you could just run it off the buttons on the inverter. If the motor spins the wrong way you just swap any two of the 3 phases. (In case you didn't know ! ) what make is the inverter ?

I'm pretty sure the LEDs don't have polarity so it won't matter which way you connect. You need quite a good quality / stable supply or your LEDs lifespan will be ltd. The polarity on the pre amp is important, get that wrong and the cell is buggered.!

Are you a member of the PPT ? If so drop Dion a line, there isn't anything he doesn't know about sound etc ! I will send you over the pin outs later. You will prob need to make up the cable but I can send you links to all that stuff too.
Cheers
Jon

Posted by Joel Whybrow (Member # 4189) on 11-27-2014, 09:06 AM:

I would be surprised if the LEDs didn't have polarity, by their very nature they should have an anode and a cathode so positive and negative. I'll keep digging for that. Would be helpful if someone could take a look at what theirs is hooked up to, maybe it'll have a sticker with ratings etc?

Not sure what the PPT is [Smile]

Posted by Gordon McLeod (Member # 33) on 11-27-2014, 01:03 PM:

Those reel arms are Kelmars for north american machines I have seen v5 with the top and bottom casting drilled to accept them and the lower one with a different shaft to the timing belt pulley

Posted by Jonathan Wood (Member # 4614) on 11-27-2014, 02:27 PM:

Hi Joel what I meant was they will only work one way round , if you connect them wrong they just won't light. The cells on my Vic 5 are wired to the two grey psu's .
PPT - Projected Picture Trust. Based at Bletchley Park , some very knowledgable film techs there. www.ppttrust.org , they have helped me lots in the past, membership is very reasonable

Posted by Dave Macaulay (Member # 813) on 11-27-2014, 04:04 PM:

The LEDs are diodes - they only work one polarity. You need a current regulated supply, only about 4V is needed and the current is 250-450mA as I recall, one sets it up with minimum LED current to get the required signal level. LED life decreases with increased power draw. There are circuits on the web for simple current regulated LED supplies using a standard 3 terminal voltage regulator chip.
Unless a high voltage is applied, reverse connection will not damage the LEDs. I do not know what "high voltage" means for these particular LED arrays, but 12V should be safe.
Note that you MUST use a current regulated supply!

Posted by Sam D. Chavez (Member # 1841) on 11-27-2014, 11:44 PM:

The maximum current for these LEDs should be 300mA. A series current limiting resistor should be used if you are using a voltage regulated supply. Ripple should be less than 1mVolt or you will hear it in the sound as hum.