Film-Tech Forum ARCHIVE: bought old theatre with all projection equipment SALE?

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Posted by Kevin Boyle (Member # 8530) on 12-26-2014, 09:35 PM:

I bought a THEATRE and it has simplex e-7 projectors, se-7017 big horn photograph,se7520 power supply speakers, 2 se7020 speakers in big box, I also have Golde rewind machine, separate advertise projector, amplifier photograph 2 of them. It was vacant for 40 years but I found the old guy that used to manage it and he came in and fired it all up and it still worked. Has a splicing station and a bunch of reels. I want to sell all this but don't know how to or how much to sell it for. Please help me if you know anything about this equipment.435-225-9907 kevin

Posted by Harold Hallikainen (Member # 5405) on 12-26-2014, 10:52 PM:

Or you could keep it to show Interstellar!

Harold

Posted by James Westbrook (Member # 3690) on 12-26-2014, 11:20 PM:

Is it this one, Kevin? http://www.cinematour.com/tour/us/28086.html

Posted by Sam D. Chavez (Member # 1841) on 12-26-2014, 11:24 PM:

You should post some pictures of the amplifiers and speakers. I don't get the se description.

Where's Dick Prather when we need him?

Posted by Monte L Fullmer (Member # 2797) on 12-27-2014, 02:07 AM:

I remember the Carol Theatre.

Had a friend who lives in Richfield who showed me the Carol Theatre and knew of it's history and who owned it.

The Carol in Monroe, along with the Pamela up in Salina, were owned by one family who named these two theatres after his daughters.

Then, you have the big ol' Huish Theatre located in Richfield(used to be a big single house which was built in 1947 - also with E-7s with Enarc Lamphouses and Simplex Stereo Sound, and now has been transposed into a three plex with the main floor split to a twin and the balcony as it's own separate house .. and now digital) in this area of So. Central Utah.

I know the owner of the Huish.

Good luck with this venture. The stuff posted might have some collectable value for those few and far between.

- Monte

Posted by Will Kutler (Member # 770) on 12-27-2014, 04:13 PM:

Please post pictures. There may be some items I may be interested in.

Cheers

Will

Posted by Martin McCaffery (Member # 37) on 12-27-2014, 04:19 PM:

The administrators will be erasing your phone number as soon as they see it.

Yes, more pictures, including the bunch of reels.

Posted by Scott Norwood (Member # 30) on 12-27-2014, 04:37 PM:

To be clear to the original poster: most of this equipment has little practical value to most operating theatres (yes, there will be a few exceptions, but they would mostly not have any money to spend on it).

Depending on condition, this stuff might have some value to collectors of old projection and sound equipment. Most likely, the sound system is the most valuable piece, but you would need to post pictures (include shots of the nameplates on everything) in order for the people here to tell you what it is and what it might be worth (or not worth). Unless you can find someone in your area who wants them, you will probably find that the projectors will cost more to ship than they are worth, unfortunately.

Posted by Will Kutler (Member # 770) on 12-27-2014, 04:55 PM:

Definitely true with E-7s. I think I may be one of the biggest E-7 preservationists around? [Big Grin]

Posted by Kevin Boyle (Member # 8530) on 12-27-2014, 07:20 PM:

The Carol Theatre is almost completely renovated. My wife wanted me to buy it so that she could have a place to put on plays. We have all new neon, the stage has been added to bring it out another 25 feet. I will post pics tomorrow. I love this building. They said we can't use the equipment because it is illegal to use the carbon arcs I guess. It closed with E.T. on the reel, so that says how long it's been.

Posted by Mark Gulbrandsen (Member # 72) on 12-27-2014, 07:32 PM:

Dick Prather passed away about a month ago...

Posted by Monte L Fullmer (Member # 2797) on 12-27-2014, 07:57 PM:

quote: Kevin Boyle
the stage has been added to bring it out another 25 feet.

What happened inside the old Grove Theatre in Pleasant Grove, UTAH - owner extended the stage for plays.

Posted by Kevin Boyle (Member # 8530) on 12-27-2014, 08:19 PM:

It wont let me post picture for some reason. It is making me mad.I can emial them to people if they think they can help with the projectors and rewinder and splicer and ad projector. Will I would love to send you some pics.

Posted by Frank Cox (Member # 6258) on 12-27-2014, 08:46 PM:

This message board has some fairly specific limits for picture size and format. Those limits are listed on the "click here to upload an image" webpage.

Are you sure your pictures are in the right format and that they aren't too large?

Posted by Louis Bornwasser (Member # 3063) on 12-27-2014, 09:00 PM:

SE designation is the post war Motiograph. Fairly typical for them. Probably field coil speakers. Power supply runs speaker field and exciters with 2 smaller tundr (Gordos) rectifiers that screw in.

Posted by Dave Macaulay (Member # 813) on 12-27-2014, 09:04 PM:

There may be a minimum post count before you can add images.

I doubt it's actually illegal to use carbon arc lamps, but finding a supplier of new carbons might be a trick.
Running really old film you might find could be illegal and quite dangerous, antique film may be on a "nitrate" base (nitrocellulose, AKA gun cotton) - the guillotine steel port shutters and self closing fire doors you probably see in the old booth are to protect patrons from burning/exploding film (the projectionist was not so "protected"). If a piece or roll of film you come across in there doesn't say "SAFETY FILM" along an edge be very careful with it... I have found a few nitrate cartoons and such tucked away in really old theatres.

Sad reality: the value of most of this equipment hovers around zero: it may cost you more to get it carried out than a scrapyard will pay for the metal.
Tube amplifiers and really old speakers are coveted by a few collectors, so if you have those you might get lucky. Certain brands of certain vacuum tubes, if you have a stock of spares, command quite surprising prices: don't sell any NOS tubes without checking their worth.

Posted by Kevin Boyle (Member # 8530) on 12-27-2014, 09:26 PM:

I will have my Secretary do it me monday. What are nos tubes? I have a lot of boxes of rods. Everything in the projection room is tube controlled. I actually had never done tube controlled stuff in my life. There are after you turn them on for a moment, tubes that glow blue in a box by the amps.I also have a cabinet that is full of all different type of tubes so I will look them up. Thank you.

Posted by Will Kutler (Member # 770) on 12-27-2014, 10:28 PM:

We had problems in Southern Arizona with local Govt bureaucrats claiming it is against EPA laws to run carbon arc indoors. HOGWASH. I asked them to provide the Fed Regulation. Of course they could do not!! If it was illegal to run carbons indoors...then any type of indoor welding would also be illegal.

As previously stated, the main safety concern is in running nitrate, which should only be run in an appropriate environment with a qualified Projectionist...not the 17 yr old concession stand kid.

Posted by James Westbrook (Member # 3690) on 12-27-2014, 11:18 PM:

quote: Kevin Boyle
It closed with E.T. on the reel, so that says how long it's been.

This almost confirms what was mentioned in Cinematour, that the building closed after a flood in the 1980s.

Posted by Monte L Fullmer (Member # 2797) on 12-27-2014, 11:20 PM:

On posting pics: If the pict size is way over a pixel count..

quote:
The filesize restriction on image uploads is 500K. Likewise the acceptable width for any uploaded picture is 800 pixels.

..then, one has to edit the picture down to fit the above resolution or filesize.

When I do pictures, I have to edit the image down to meet the above requirements.

-Monte

Posted by Sean Weitzel (Member # 244) on 12-28-2014, 01:36 AM:

Kevin email me about the pictures you should be able to through this forum I will post them on your behalf. You need to click the email link above this post. Forum rules prohibit me posting my email address in the body of a post.

Posted by Rick Raskin (Member # 1561) on 12-28-2014, 07:33 AM:

NOS means New Old Stock as in never used and still in the box. Usually the parts cabinet was stocked with lots of replacement tubes.

Chiming in on nitrate, not only do you need a qualified projectionist (A MUST) but the machines need to be nitrate ready. That means fire trap rollers, reel magazines and doors on the picture and sound heads.

Why dispose of the equipment if it is functional? Just leave it in place. You never know, you may want to do revival screenings down the road.

Posted by Kevin Boyle (Member # 8530) on 12-28-2014, 07:50 AM:

Sean I will be happy to email it all to you in a few hours if you can figure it out how. To get it on. I wish we could just run old movies all the time and focus on the older generation for a few years, that would be fun and we are looking into how much it is to actually run the older movies.

Posted by Will Kutler (Member # 770) on 12-28-2014, 10:12 AM:

E-7s are not machines intended for the untrained concession stand kid or floor manager to operate. They will tear them up in a heartbeat! There are just a few of us left who know how to properly operate, service and overhaul them. Replacement parts are becoming more rare every day. I would strongly urge you to preserve this equipment, especially if it was original to this theater.

Posted by Kevin Boyle (Member # 8530) on 12-28-2014, 06:31 PM:

To be honest I personally would love to bring it back to the old movies and show the community that grew up here in that THEATRE blasts from the past with it but it has taken me a little more than I had anticipated to restore it and I am so close but I need a little more to keep part of the dream alive for my wife and the future of my family so I am NEEDING to sell. I know, it sucks because just keeping this around for us and the community would be awesome.

Posted by Mitchell Dvoskin (Member # 751) on 12-28-2014, 06:58 PM:

I'll second what others have said about running carbon arcs. There is no regulation anywhere in the USA prohibiting the use of carbon arc lamps. That said, it would probably be worth your while to put in a used pair of xenon bulb lamp houses if you actually plan on running movies.

I'll also second what others have said, other than any tube amps and old Altec speakers, the rest of the equipment is worthless.

Posted by Will Kutler (Member # 770) on 12-28-2014, 09:15 PM:

Kevin

Please investigate if this is a historic theater eligible for historic building registry. If so, then have it registered. Then apply for Gov't grants and community support. This may help make your dream come true.

Cheers

Will K.

Posted by Mitchell Dvoskin (Member # 751) on 12-31-2014, 04:24 PM:

> Please investigate if this is a historic theater eligible for historic building registry.

The downside to this is that once it is listed as a historic building, there are all sorts of hoops and expenses that the government requires to make any modifications and repairs, and being a historic building still does not guarantee any funding.

Posted by Stephan Shelley (Member # 8587) on 01-01-2015, 12:19 PM:

I would be surprised if it was illegal to run carbon arc lamps. Here in the San Francisco Bay Area which has some of the strictest air pollution laws we have two theatres that run 35mm with carbon arc on close to a daily basis. Another that runs a "classic" series on a monthly basis or so and a couple others that do when they run 35mm on the very rare occasion. One of the theatres that runs on a daily basis also uses E7s with RCA 1040 soundheads.

Posted by Frank Angel (Member # 248) on 01-01-2015, 01:51 PM:

quote: Dave Macaulay
the guillotine steel port shutters and self closing fire doors you probably see in the old booth are to protect patrons from burning/exploding film (the projectionist was not so "protected").

Ferocious nitrate fire breaks out in the booth, the port shutters and the fire doors slam shut sealing in the gun-powder-like flames off from and protecting the audience. The projectionist, however, he's sealed off in the booth, where, for his protection, he's got...well, a couple of buckets of sand. [Eek!]

Result: a safe audience and in the booth, you've got Projectionist Flambé! [evil]

Posted by Monte L Fullmer (Member # 2797) on 01-01-2015, 06:28 PM:

..and I worked in a booth (thank goodness that had doors on each end for an emergency exit) that had carbon tet extinguisher bottles that would shatter when a small striking device that was spring loaded and held in check with a solder spot that would melt on heat...along with the port window fire shutters that were still intact with the lead breaks in the chain that kept them up that would break also in fire...

The Carbon Tec bottles were removed in the latter '70's and we got ABC extinguishers to replace.

I loved that booth though - my home for over 10 years.

Posted by Dave Macaulay (Member # 813) on 01-02-2015, 05:18 PM:

Those nitrate era booths - at least the ones I've been in around here - had to have two fire exits for the projectionist. They also had a fireproof rewind room, and I think those ancient enclosed rewinds are a nitrate thing.
The Ontario Censor Board used to operate from the Ontario Legislature building - along with the provincial parliament and most government departments. In the early 1940's some government guy saw a report about a booth fire somewhere, and asked if there was any of "that flammable film" in the censor board offices. When he found out they usually had roughly a ton of high explosive in the place at any time, the censor board was very quickly relocated to a vacant lot out by the old Thorncliffe Park horse track.

Posted by Rick Raskin (Member # 1561) on 01-02-2015, 06:13 PM:

I experienced a nitrate fire in 1975. Photos are in the warehouse in the miscellaneous stuff section.

Posted by Kevin Boyle (Member # 8530) on 01-03-2015, 04:31 PM:

IF ANYONE WANTS PICS PLEASE EMAIL ME AT

AND TELL ME IF YOU WOULD LIKE PICS TO SEE IF YOU CAN HELP ME IN MY INDEVOR WITH THIS OLD THEATRE EQUIPMENT PLEASE. EVERYTHING IS PRETTY MUCH A BRAND CALLED MOTIOGRAPH, EXCEPT THE AUTO REWIND MACHINE IS A GOLDE.

[ 01-03-2015, 04:45 PM: Message edited by: Brad Miller ]

Posted by Brad Miller (Member # 2) on 01-03-2015, 04:46 PM:

KEVIN PLEASE READ THE RULES BEFORE YOU POST AGAIN. There is a link to the rules at the top of every forum page.

Posted by Kevin Boyle (Member # 8530) on 01-04-2015, 10:32 AM:

I found someone on here to help me with the pictures so they should be up very soon I hope, so you all can help me.

Posted by Jim Cassedy (Member # 4115) on 01-04-2015, 11:11 AM:

quote: Monte L Fullmer
and I worked in a booth (thank goodness that had doors on each end for an emergency exit)

Several of the 'nitrate booths' I've worked in over the years had those
big metal fire doors at each end that were counter-weighted and designed
to automatically slam shut when one of the fuzable-link chains over the
projectors melted in a fire- - thus 'trapping' the projectionist inside.

The whole idea of the port-shutters and doors was to keep the fire from
spreading to the auditorium. They really didn't give a damn about
whoever was in the booth. Think about it- - An auditorium fire would
cause immediate panic, which could possibly lead to a great number
of injuries or deaths, as can be historically documented. There's a lot
less "paperwork" if the only fatality is the projectionist.
(Blunt, but painfully true.)

If you go through some of the old IA union trade journals, you'll see
that up through the late 1940's, insurance companies considered being a
projectionist as a "hazardous job" and charged higher rates for it.

As for carbon arcs being "illegal" these days:
As others here have already mentioned, I don't believe there are any
laws/rules on the books that specifically prohibit the use of carbon arcs.

As Stephen Shelly correctly pointed out, there are several sill running here
in the SF Bay area, and I've even worked a couple of them.

HOWEVER, the municipal fire code regulations for many cities used to
require carbon-arc booths to be equipped with sand buckets and those
heavy duty fire-proof self closing trash cans for garbage & oily rags.
(Along with several other safety devices & requirements)

Many of these old codes are still on the books, so technically, if you are
running a carbon arc booth without them, you could be in violation
of some obscure fire-code regulation.

But I seriously doubt most "modern" fire inspectors are aware of these
old rules, so if you don't have them, I'd guess your chances of getting
tagged with a code violation are probably pretty remote.

(Although, just for the record, I'd still consider sand buckets and
enclosed trash/rag bins to be a very good idea in terms of safety even
in a 'modern' carbon-arc booth. No matter what the new regulations say)

Posted by Donald Brown (Member # 5427) on 01-04-2015, 07:57 PM:

When the former Capital Theater in Dover, Delaware was resurrected as the Schwartz Center For The Arts over a decade ago, a film program was included for the revitalized venue. At the time, I was in contact with one of the volunteers associated with the joint public/private venture. The gentleman informed me that the old Peerless carbon arc lamps were removed and discarded because the Dover Fire Marshal would not permit their operation in the building any longer. When I questioned the source further, and pointed out that the equipment was UL Listed, he suggested that the concern related to the combustion process of the arc.
While this information was provided to me second hand, it is the only incident of equipment prohibition that I have ever heard of.

Posted by David Buckley (Member # 2600) on 01-04-2015, 09:23 PM:

quote: Jim Cassedy
Several of the 'nitrate booths' I've worked in over the years had those big metal fire doors at each end that were counter-weighted and designed to automatically slam shut when one of the fuzable-link chains over the projectors melted in a fire- - thus 'trapping' the projectionist inside.

The booth in our now-closed Town hall was built in the nitrate era, and it had the heavy doors which permanently self-closed. The projectionist wasn't trrapped, as far as I could tell, and there were exits at both ends of the booth to get out. The booth also had the auto-dropping port windows, but the fusible links for them were removed a few decades back.

Posted by Will Kutler (Member # 770) on 01-04-2015, 10:13 PM:

The Tucson Convention Center had Strong Super Trouper follow spots. City of Tucson Fire Marshall and other officials forced their removal. They stated that there were Federal and EPA laws forbidding indoor carbon arc operation. There was also a small privately owned arts cinema in Tucson that had c-a lamps, which I offered to get up and running for them. This did not happen, as the same Tucson gov't officials threated to close the theater down should c-a be used indoors, claiming non-existent Federal Gov't and EPA regulations. I personally confronted some of these Gov't officials requesting them to supply the specific laws prohibiting the use of this equipment. They were, of course, unable to site any source. However, they insisted on standing their ground and the independent theater owner was not interested in pursuing a lawsuit.

Posted by Martin McCaffery (Member # 37) on 01-04-2015, 10:22 PM:

My theater was built during the nitrate era. We removed the port drops some time ago, but was quite familiar with them from the theatre I learned in. We still have the (probably) 200lb fire door on the booth. Interestingly, we only have one access point in the booth. I wonder if Montgomery didn't build to the same code as the rest of the country.

I was just up in DC over the holidays and was asked to checkout the screening room booth in the Hillwood Museum. It hasn't been used since at least 1973 but it is in lovely condition. The drop panels are still in place as are the string and solder links. Only one way out there, also.

Posted by Kevin Boyle (Member # 8530) on 01-05-2015, 09:54 PM:

I actually need $ for payments on stuff that I unfortunately can't afford at this time because of the unexpected cost of t h e renovation of the THEATRE. Will is going g to put up that I sent to him to get input from you all as to how much this is worth. I have e already been informed the E-7 projectors are basically not worth much so if I can even get $500.00 a piece at this point I would be happy.if not I will keep for display in lobby window. From what Will told me the sound equip. Is worth $$$.

Posted by Will Kutler (Member # 770) on 01-06-2015, 03:13 AM:

Hi Kevin

I forwarded your pics (and copied you) to a fellow F-T member and dear friend who is very capable of estimating the $$ value of your sound equipment and help you on E-Bay. He is a very experienced projectionist as well as restoration expert and very successful E-Bay seller.

I am unsure if posting all your pics in this forum would violate Brad's F-T rules. If not, then I will. Feedback, Brad???

Posted by Monte L Fullmer (Member # 2797) on 01-08-2015, 06:26 PM:

Will - send all of those picts to Brad so he can add them in the "Warehouse/Pictures" section as an album !

..fuel for thought !

-Monte

Posted by Stephan Shelley (Member # 8587) on 01-08-2015, 07:14 PM:

I can understand the issue with carbon arc spotlights. Often just exhausted into the room. If they were in with the audience that is an issue.

Best not to inhale that stuff.

Posted by Kevin Boyle (Member # 8530) on 01-25-2015, 10:31 AM:

The motiograph amps that I thought were worth at least $2,000 a piece but I have put them on eBay twice and have lowered them to a $1,000.00 now. Am I doing something wrong? I don't know if I should just keep them on or take them off but I don't know what else I can use them for. Can I use them with modern speakers?

Posted by Louis Bornwasser (Member # 3063) on 01-25-2015, 10:52 AM:

They are a very decent low power 1946 amplifier, if overhauled. Probably not what you wanted to hear. Collectors only in my opinion.

Posted by Mitchell Dvoskin (Member # 751) on 01-26-2015, 11:26 AM:

Let's see. While these may have been manufactured under Western Electric license, these are not Western Electric manufactured amplifiers. Working condition unknown. Are all the tubes there, unknown.

While Western Electric branded amplifiers and early RCA amplifiers go for big bucks on the collector market, other vintage industrial tube amps rarely do. Further, your auction states USA only, and many of the high rollers for this type of equipment are in Japan.

I would be surprised if these bring more than a few hundred dollars at auction.

Posted by Louis Bornwasser (Member # 3063) on 01-26-2015, 05:14 PM:

Made in Chicago at the Motiograph factory. Also made Servus-Fone for drive in restaurants. Speakers were the same as used at drive in theatres.

Posted by Mark Gulbrandsen (Member # 72) on 01-28-2015, 09:58 AM:

Kevin Boyle.... Try advertising the at Audiogon.com. That's where you'll find that type of collector.

Mark

Posted by John Eickhof (Member # 323) on 01-29-2015, 09:21 PM:

The MA-7505 was a low cost / budget designed power amplifier liberally rated 20 watts into 250-500 ohm speaker load at 1Kc.(250 ohms was actually the original loudspeaker crossover input impedance like RCA used, and usually the nominal load for 70V drive in arrays) some later 'A' versions had a 16 ohm tap on the output transformer for VOTT speakers that were supplied with the later systems. They need a solid .75V to drive to the full 20 watt output but they are somewhat frequency limited as they were designed for the limited range of motion picture soundtrack use and to try and keep signal to noise ratio down on frequencies not reproducible from an optical film soundtrack. Having 2 6L6 tubes, a lot of audiophiles think they rival any 6L6 design amp, but they are not. Also being built on a non-standard chassis they are not easy to rack mount unless they are in the original WE cabinet which is twice the size of the chassis. Even when they were widely in use they wouldn't bring in more than a buck a watt on the used market! Just because they have tubes, doesn't necessarily make them a good full range amplifier. The first stage 6SJ7s were known to resonate at times also. I've still got a couple racks of them and would love to get $1K a piece!!! Otherwise they are just good display items for my museum. Kevin, you said in an earlier post the tubes were glowing blue? If it is the two 6L6s in the MA-7505 it indicates the tube is worn out (gassy) or there are components breaking down in the amplifier causing an excessive load on the two ouput tubes, otherwise if you have a similar looking cabinet with a couple larger globe like tubes, they are called tungar tubes and were used in the Motiograpgh exciter lamp / field power unit if so the main loudspeaker behind the screen is probably motiograph also and is a field would type and would be a high impedance input. (250 ohm, not 8 ohms like modern speakers)

Posted by Monte L Fullmer (Member # 2797) on 01-30-2015, 02:13 PM:

That's an old booth.

Booth at the old Centre Theatre in Ontario Ore used to have the same Motiograph equipment but all removed when the place was split to a twin and center surround stereo was added, yet the tungar bulb exciter supply was still in operation to drive both Westrex sound heads.

I used to love to see the blue light in those 6L6 tubes flicker when the loud passages from the soundtrack was in progress.

-Monte

Posted by Martin McCaffery (Member # 37) on 01-30-2015, 03:27 PM:

When I got here in 1985, they were still using the Motiograph sound. Still had tubes in the cabinet with 1941 manufacture date on them.

Posted by Louis Bornwasser (Member # 3063) on 02-06-2015, 06:09 PM:

It was possible to wide band the power amp. Don't forget the cap on the output transformer primary. Old optical sound did "warping" in the power amplifier inputs for noise reduction and room eq. (I use that term in its loosest possible definition.)