This is topic KINOTON FP 30 D HELP NEEDED in forum Film Handlers' Forum at Film-Tech Forum ARCHIVE.


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Posted by Nigel Pickles (Member # 6105) on 05-12-2015, 03:32 PM:
 
Hi thanks for all your help with the Lamp it,s a working progress and i'm getting there, however I still have some other operation problems, which I hope someone can help.

1.When you press the Projector start button, everything works but you have to keep the button pressed it doesn't latch, do I have a issue with a
the film break sensor not being connected ? there are numerous cables going to a tag strip at the bottom of the projector and going no where?



2.I.m projecting on a exisiting screen from another room, so Im unable to move the projector any closer, the picture is currently to large for the screen, about a foot either side,the lens is a ISCO-OPTIC ULTRA MC f =45mm - 1.77in.I previously had a 16mm projector with zoom lens are there zoom type lenses available for 35mm projectors or are they too expensive? If not do I Need a lens with a smaller focal Number or Bigger?

3. The Dowser doesn't appear to work there is a photo cell again connected to the tag at the bottom, not connected to anything, im sure the dowser worked in the past though, is there anything I need to do to make the dowser activate?

Below is the main PCB on the inside of the door.
I've managed to trace some cables back to here but some just go to the above tag strip in the bottom of the projector.
4.Is there a schematic Diagram available which would help alot.

 

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Posted by Pete Naples (Member # 761) on 05-12-2015, 05:01 PM:
 
If this came from a multiplex it will be looking for film break from the platter. It's a pair of contacts which the projector needs to see closed to latch running. Offhand I can't remember the terminal numbers!

The other unused terminals are for automation functions.

The photocell may be some crude system which only allows the dowser to open if the xenon is lit? I'd try strapping the LDR out.
 

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Posted by Dave Macaulay (Member # 813) on 05-12-2015, 10:19 PM:
 
Zoom lenses for 35mm projection are rather rare - doubtful you will find any. You want a longer focal length (bigger number) for a smaller screen image... There's a lens calculator program in the "warehouse" here under miscellaneous. Used 35mm lenses in common sizes are essentially free now with so many systems scrapped.
Also, lenses are not magical: a 50mm lens is a 50mm lens - a 35mm film camera lens will make an ok 35mm cinema "hobby" projection lens up to a point (the point where it overheats and elements crack, they are not designed for the heat load of projection using high power lamps). You just need a lens that will handle the image area, most all 16mm projection lenses will vignette horribly if you try them for 35mm.
I had the Kinoton manuals on a cd but can't promise I could find it... and I may have binned it. Someone must have the wiring diagram(s) at hand?
Look for the stop button to be wired out to that terminal strip, as I recall it's a NC button and needs a jumper or a failsafe switch on that strip to keep running. That may solve the dowser problem as well, I believe it closes automatically when the projector is stopped. Many of the wires there are for various automation connections and for a Kinoton platter (the most complicated and overdesigned platter ever made) or even a Kinoton turret (the most complicated and overdesigned turret ever made).
Kinoton was strict about forbidding freely distributing any manuals so they are not usually available online: maybe now they could be posted, I don't know.
 

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Posted by Pete Naples (Member # 761) on 05-13-2015, 03:17 AM:
 
I dunno that 'most complicated and overdesigned' is a fair criticism Dave. Like most German equipment they weren't pretty but they were functional and accurate.

The turrets, about every 5 years I had to recalibrate the sensors. Other than that they were usually left alone. I can't say the same for Strong or Cinemecannica turrets.

Same goes for the platters. I was never done re-timing Strong Alpha and Christie AW3s. Cinemecannica were in my experience a little better. I've a site in Ireland where the 9 Kinoton ST200E platters ran their entire service lives with nothing beyond routine maintenance.
 

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Posted by Lindsay Morris (Member # 1430) on 05-13-2015, 04:07 AM:
 
A quick and easy method to calculate screen size (width generally) is to use this simple formula.

Screen Size in Metres = aperture width in millimetres (nominally 21.5mm) x lens focal length in millimeters.
You can modify that formula to work out ANY unknown so long as you know 2 of the variables.

For my screening room which has a throw of 6.2M on widescreen (Flat) using a 63mm F/L lens it gives me a pix of 2.11M wide. The height you can work out from the aspect ratio.
In my case Aperture Width is 21.5mm x Throw of 6.2m / lens F/L of 63mm = 2.11M.

The lens calculator DOES give you more info but this is a quick and easy one to remember & most mobile phones have a calculator inbuilt so nowadays is dead easy to work out what you are looking for.
 

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Posted by Jean-Marc Toussaint (Member # 4784) on 05-13-2015, 08:50 AM:
 
Nigel, regarding the start motor issue, did you check the wiring of the film break roller? It's the reddish/orange roller below the lower sprocket wheel.
 

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Posted by Jonathan Wood (Member # 4614) on 05-17-2015, 10:30 AM:
 
Hi Nigel

I would be tempted to bypass that mother board entirely and just program the VFD inverter to run the motor via 'three wire control' . Dig out the manual for the VFD and it's just usually a matter of changing a few parameters. Trace back the wires for the run and stop buttons ( which will be NO and NC respectively ) and wire these directly to the control terminals of the VFD . The motor needs to be wired directly to the three phase output of the VFD . Make sure you earth everything properly and you should be fine . I've done this with a fp 40 and a Vic 5 . You should also be able to bypass the board to control the dowser, all u need is a 24v supply . I think I have the fp 30 manual somewhere , I will try and dig it out . Good luck
 

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Posted by Jim Cassedy (Member # 4115) on 05-19-2015, 10:08 AM:
 

quote: Nigel Pickles

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Is there a schematic Diagram available which would help alot.

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