Film-Tech Forum ARCHIVE: last 35mm release?

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Posted by Carsten Kurz (Member # 5396) on 06-18-2015, 08:45 AM:

I haven't seen this covered here: Are there still 35mm releases now? Which is the last one you heard about/saw yourself? Which country?

- Carsten

Posted by Leo Enticknap (Member # 534) on 06-18-2015, 09:59 AM:

The definition of "last" will be quite tricky to pin down.

The Nolans, P.T. Andersons and Tarantinos of this world will probably try to continue "vanity publishing" on film until such time as FotoKem has to throw in the towel (which I'm guessing will be when EK, or a manufacturer of an essential chemical, does so).

But these projects can't be characterized as mainstream releases, any more than 180-gram rerelease pressings of classic vinyl albums and sold to collectors at $50 each can be. If by "last release" we mean a routine studio movie, whose director is not insisting on a 35mm release to massage his or her ego but whose distributor is making a few prints to enable it to play in the few remaining multiplexes that haven't converted (not because anyone specifically wants to see it on film), then it should be reasonably obvious when that moment comes.

Posted by Jim Cassedy (Member # 4115) on 06-18-2015, 10:08 AM:

Carsten-
As I mentioned somewhere in another thread recently, I'm often shipped 35mm
'back up' prints for some of the big press or studio screenings I'm involved with.

Last two 35mm prints I got were for the new "Mad Max" flick, & "San Andreas"

I don't know how widely the studios are distributing the 35mm prints to
theaters, but apparently they are still striking a small number of them.

Last year I had a situation where a failed ICP board threatened a number of
"Academy Screenings", where films are screened for some of the people who
wind up voting for the Academy Awards.

After first being told there were ' absolutely no 35mm prints' available, after
a few phone calls by someone at The Academy, 35mm prints for all but one
were magically 'found' and sent to us for the screenings.

I was told at the time that these were 'studio prints' and that they could
NOT, under any circumstances, be plattered. I don't have platters in that
booth anyway so that wasn't really an issue.

Posted by Carsten Kurz (Member # 5396) on 06-18-2015, 10:14 AM:

Oh yes, I remember that MadMax frame in the aspect ratio thread. But, I guess I meant 'for ordinary cinemas'. Certainly, that MadMax print is still an interesting piece.

I wondering how much it costs to create these single/small quantity prints? Will they be laser printed directly to positive print film? Did you see any lab label or something on it?

- Carsten

Posted by Jim Cassedy (Member # 4115) on 06-18-2015, 10:18 AM:

quote: Carsten Kurz
Will they be laser printed directly to positive print film?

I remember getting at least one print last year, I can't remember the title,
that was shipped directly from the lab, so it had all the paperwork still
in the cans, and I know that print was directly 'laser scanned' onto positive
print stock, according to the paperwork, and the leaders also had some
"Arri-laser" test frames and some other intereresting stuff on them.
I should have photographed or scanned them , but sometimes I'm just
too damn busy working to have any fun! [Wink]

Posted by Leo Enticknap (Member # 534) on 06-18-2015, 06:52 PM:

It's certainly possible to laser or CRT film recorder straight out to release print stock. The last time I knew the figures involved (late '00s), it was totally uneconomic to do that, because the cost in machine time was such that even for 2 or 3 prints, it was cheaper to burn an interneg and contact print from that. The recorders themselves cost a quarter of a million, and 4K burning took about a week to do one 2,000 foot reel. Given the cost in machine time that a post house had to charge, therefore, it made sense to spend that time burning an interneg, from which you could then make as many prints as you like on a high speed, one light panel printer.

I'm guessing that burning speeds have increased since then (in other words, that the cost of filming out per foot has decreased), as has the cost of release print stock and processing, such that it might now make economic sense to burn one or two prints directly if that's all you're going to need.

Posted by Scott Norwood (Member # 30) on 06-18-2015, 08:26 PM:

Except that the IN or IP is also useful as a preservation element (which prints are not) and is potentially useful for video transfers or scans in the future.

And how does the soundtrack get printed on a laser-to-positive print? If the lab is going to contact-print the soundtrack, anyway, it would make sense to make an IN and then contact-print everything. And this would have the advantage of making an additional print order easy and cheap.

Posted by Carsten Kurz (Member # 5396) on 06-18-2015, 08:31 PM:

I guess cost of machine time also has come down considerably, as these devices are not used as much nowadays as they used to be.

- Carsten

Posted by Jim Cassedy (Member # 4115) on 06-26-2015, 02:03 PM:

UPDATE on 35mm:
This week I had a 35mm backup of "TED 2" and I'm aware of at least one theater
here in San Francisco running a 35mm show print this week.

. . . so they're still apparently still shipping some 35mm stuff.

Posted by Tony Ratcliff (Member # 1196) on 06-26-2015, 03:36 PM:

Other current titles still available 35mm:
Terminator Genisys
Tomorrowland
Avengers
Inside Out
Jurassic World

Posted by Timothy Eiler (Member # 383) on 07-10-2015, 03:31 PM:

San Andreas
Furious 7
Pitch perfect 2
inside out

Posted by Mike Spaeth (Member # 524) on 07-10-2015, 04:43 PM:

Universal and Warner Brothers are still making 35mm prints of *most* of their releases. Disney as well. Fox, Paramount, and Lionsgate are few and far between.

Posted by Richard Fowler (Member # 893) on 07-12-2015, 02:32 PM:

Cinevator direct to print recorder, developed in Norway,is able to take visual - audio digital files and record at 24 / 25 frames per second on print film. I have handled quite a few of these prints for festivals. The unit has a DLP light engine and LED light source which outputs a 2K image with Dolby Digital, DTS Digital, and stereo analog tracks. Technicolor, Labodigital, Tunnel Post, Delux Spain supplied great prints. The parent company Piql has other hardware for asset preservation.

Posted by Leo Enticknap (Member # 534) on 07-12-2015, 08:18 PM:

How much does the Cinevator variant that can burn release prints in real time directly cost? It would be interesting to figure out from that (e.g. the cost of ownership over the machine's projected useful lifetime, divided into hours of operating time and then, say, 3-4 hours per feature film print including rethreading time) how many prints of a given title you want to make before it becomes more cost effective to burn an interneg and then make the prints by analog contact printing from that.

I also note with interest that 2K is enough resolution for Dolby digital audio, and that it cannot print SDDS audio.

Interesting that direct burning of release prints is now actually happening. My gut feeling had been that mainstream releasing on film would probably have disappeared altogether before filmout technology had evolved to the point of making that viable. The last I knew, MWA-Nova were thinking about making a variant of their film recorder that could go directly to print stock as well, but there's no mention of it on their website as yet.

Posted by Richard Fowler (Member # 893) on 07-13-2015, 06:26 AM:

The Cinevator is able to make internegatives for larger runs. One company had a package deal of $1200.00 a 20 minute reel for a single copy run.

Posted by Jim Cassedy (Member # 4115) on 07-13-2015, 09:44 AM:

In case you're curious (as I was) - A Cinevator machine looks like this:

(Cinevator Product Photo Found On Internet)

Posted by Carsten Kurz (Member # 5396) on 07-13-2015, 10:33 AM:

Leo - they do not burn the audio tracks with their general 2k imaging DLP engine, the Cinevators have dedicated sound cameras:

http://www.piql.com/wp-content/uploads/2014/05/Sound-Recording-White-Paper.pdf

- Carsten

Posted by Steve Guttag (Member # 268) on 07-13-2015, 12:03 PM:

But where does one thread the DCP?