Film-Tech Forum ARCHIVE: Controlling mute and fader on a CP-65

This is topic Controlling mute and fader on a CP-65 in forum Film Handlers' Forum at Film-Tech Forum ARCHIVE.

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Posted by Stephen Furley (Member # 1277) on 07-10-2015, 09:00 AM:

I won't be at the cinema again to try this until Tuesday, and I want to have it ready as soon as I get there. How do you mute the CP-65, does the terminal have to be held down while you want the output muted, and allowed to float back up to restore it, or does a momentary relay contact toggle the mute on and off? if the latter, how long a pulse is required to activate it?

Has anybody managed to control the CP-65 fader from Ethernet? I thought somebody must make the electronic equivelent of a pot which can be controlled over a network, but I can't find such a thing.

Posted by Stephan Shelley (Member # 8587) on 07-10-2015, 10:47 AM:

The mute is momentary pulse to toggle the setting. It is the same duration as the format buttons. Works the same way as the mute button on the front panel. Also if the sound is muted a format change will automatically cancel the mute.

Posted by Stephen Furley (Member # 1277) on 07-10-2015, 10:59 AM:

Thank you.

Posted by Scott Norwood (Member # 30) on 07-10-2015, 01:26 PM:

One issue with the CP65's mute function is that it is a toggle, so there is no convenient way for an automation system to "force" a mute (because closing the "mute" contact will just unmute the processor if the operator has engaged the mute button manually).

These people have some interesting devices including RS232-controllable potentiometers. Using a terminal server or similar device, you could hack together an Ethernet-controllable volume adjustment.

I would be kind of surprised if Crestron and/or Extron did not have something similar.

At that point, though, you might be better off considering an upgrade to a newer processor.

Posted by Stephen Furley (Member # 1277) on 07-10-2015, 02:01 PM:

Scott,

I would only want to do this in a digital show, and mainly when dropping out to an insert in some non-DC format, get the server to control DMA, A/V switcher, Cine-Ipm etc. and then pause itself while the insert is run. We need to do this if the insert is something which is brought in just before the show, and there isn't time to make a DCP of it. Some of the projectionists struggle to change settings on several different devices in a couple of seconds.

The toggle problem should be easy to fix, the 35 mm machines would not be in use at the time, so put in a cue to select a film format, this makes no sound, and will force the mute off. Then pulse the mute toggle and the mute will be active. I have a reason for not just leaving it in film mode, due to some other equipment which is connected to the system.

Those pomtialometer boxes look like what I'm after,but they are quite expensive, and the smallest has eight ports. Maybe I can find a circuit somewhere and build my own. Budget is zero, as usual.

Due to poor health, lack of money, and no passport I haven't been over there for over five years, but I'm hoping to be coming over again in a few months, and want to do the train trip from NYC to Chicago which I was planning, but never managed to do.

Posted by Gordon McLeod (Member # 33) on 07-10-2015, 03:23 PM:

Did not penny wise make a volume controller for the cp65 that was rs232

Posted by Steve Guttag (Member # 268) on 07-10-2015, 04:42 PM:

Yep...the DF-1 box (Digital Fader). Worked with most analog systems. We used it at the AFI to allow Crestron to have have control over a CP200 too (as well as the EMK-1s to monitor the CP200).

Note, depending on the automation, one can monitor the mute tally or even the fader tallys to see if the system is muted or not and based on that execute the mute (set up a conditional command).

Posted by Scott Norwood (Member # 30) on 07-13-2015, 07:21 PM:

Stephen--if you take that train trip, let me know how it is. The train to Chicago (the "Lake Shore Limited") is intereting in that half of it starts in NYC and half of it starts in Boston. The two half-trains meet in Albany and are coupled there, and the combined train runs from Albany to Chicago.

It is then possible for passengers to take the California Zephyr from Chicago to San Francisco for a complete coast-to-coast train trip. I am not sure how long that takes. Boston to Chicago is just about twenty hours and NYC to Chicago should be similar..

I am only familiar with the trains that Amtrak runs on the eastern half of the US. The western trains are double-deckers that (I am told) are more spacious and comfortable (not that the eastern trains are bad at all).

Posted by Jim Cassedy (Member # 4115) on 07-13-2015, 08:23 PM:

quote: Scott Norwood
It is then possible for passengers to take the California Zephyr from Chicago to San Francisco

Technically, the train doesn't go anywhere near San Francisco.
You get off in either Emeryville or Oakland, CA, and then they stick you
on a bus for a ride over the Bay Bridge and into SF. I've taken several
Amtrak trips. The train is great - - but on two trips there were problems
with Amtrak's bus connections forcing passengers to wait over 2hrs to
get to San Francisco. (You could have caught a public transit bus or the
BART train and gotten there in less than half that time)

The Amtrak station in Emeryville isn't far from Pixar's studios.

Posted by Stephen Furley (Member # 1277) on 07-14-2015, 09:48 AM:

quote: Steve Guttag
Yep...the DF-1 box (Digital Fader). Worked with most analog systems. We used it at the AFI to allow Crestron to have have control over a CP200 too (as well as the EMK-1s to monitor the CP200).

Steve, can this thing work as a stand-alone device, without an automation system?

It's no longer listed as being available, and there are none on Ebay, but if I can find one somewhere it sounds like this could do what I want. I don't suppose that anybody here has a spare one which they would sell?

Posted by Carsten Kurz (Member # 5396) on 07-14-2015, 10:28 AM:

Stephen - when you say 'controlled over Ethernet' - what is that Ethernet coming from? A DCI server/automation command? From what you write above, I do not understand what you are trying to achieve and what your existing equipment is and doesn't support.

- Carsten

Posted by Steve Guttag (Member # 268) on 07-14-2015, 10:41 AM:

I would start by contacting Film-Tech. Last I heard, they could supply the DFC-1 with their FT-21 automation. I have no idea as to their current status of manufacture though. I'd suspect that there are some now on trash heaps when film systems were removed.