Film-Tech Forum ARCHIVE: Spindle Sizes

This is topic Spindle Sizes in forum Film Handlers' Forum at Film-Tech Forum ARCHIVE.

To visit this topic, use this URL:
https://ft-forum.com/ft/cgi-bin/ubb/ultimatebb.cgi?ubb=get_topic;f=1;t=011869

Posted by Steve McAndrew (Member # 8865) on 08-31-2015, 05:09 AM:

As mentioned in a previous post I am fairly new to 35mm so on a bit of a learning curve!

I have a Kinoton FP20 that has 9mm Spindles on it with a separate locating pin.

I also have a film re-winder that has smaller (USA?) spindle with a key as part of the spindle.

While split reels etc seem plentiful for the re-winder, they don't seem to exist for the Kinoton spindles. Are they available? I have had a quote from a UK company to make a split reel for 9mm spindles but I would think the locating pin would foul on the core?

Finally I have a number of plastic split reels that seem to require cores with holes in them, however these cores never seem to be available. Can you buy them?

Thanks in advance for any help/advice.

Steve

Posted by Stephen Furley (Member # 1277) on 08-31-2015, 07:24 AM:

Steve, spindle sizes have never been standardised for 35 mm, there are many different types.

The ones on your rewinder, with the drive key, are 5/16", and are most common on equipment of American origin. Spindles of the same size but with a drive pin were used on some early projectors; think hand-cranked days, so you are unlikely to see one outside of a museum.

Traditionally, 3/8" was widely used in the UK, and 9 mm in mainland Europe. These both use a drive pin. They are very similar; I have some old 3/8" Kalee spools which will fit Kinoton 9 mm spindles, though they are slightly loose.

You may find small plastic spools with a 5/16 hole, square on one side, as used for 16 mm. These are not for motion picture film; they are for document microfilm, where the readers are generally made to handle both gauges.

1/2" starts to get complicated; there are several different types. American ones are different to European ones, but I'm not sure exactly how, I think it's something to do with the size and position of the drive pin. some spindles have one drive pin, and others two, spaced 180 degrees apart. some spools have three holes and some four. The three-hole type will obviously not fit a two pin spindle. 1/2" was introduced for larger spools; it is possible to get 5/16" ones up to 6000 feet, but I wouldn't recommend them. 1/2" is widely used on 35/70 mm dual gauge machines, and on long-run towers.

There are, or were, a few projectors which take their own, unique spools. The Fedi Solo, an early machine which could take an entire programme on one large spool, had a fairly conventional looking spindle, but about an inch in diameter, while the BTH SUPA Mk. 1 used 2000 foot spools with a weird, very large splined spindle.

Yes, there are cores with holes in them for those spools, but they're not very common here.

Most rewinders, and many projectors can take interchangeable spindles. This is not a recent thing; the parts list for the Kalee 21, made from 1947 to 1958, lists several different size spindles. Kinotons also take different size spindles, so just asking for 'spools for a Kinoton' may not get you the right size.

If you ever have a print sent over from the USA it will arrive on 5/16" transit spools, either solid ones in which case you will need the 5/16" spindles on your rewinder, or split ones, like the ones you have seen, in which case you could take them apart, and handle the film on a core, as you usually would.

Good luck trying to find some 9 mm Kinoton spools; I've been looking for a few 2000 foot ones, with no luck so far. I thought there'd be loads of them around.

Posted by Dave Macaulay (Member # 813) on 08-31-2015, 07:30 AM:

This has always been the case.
Machines with 9mm spindles are rather rare in North America but not unknown. I have seen these spindles for Philips and Kinoton machines, but they also had 5/16 and 1/2 inch spindles we used so the Euro ones just sat in the change cases. I have seen a few 9mm reels, again never used them - just swore when I picked one up by mistake and realized it after the roll was locked in.
I think you'll have to do what we did with large reels for 35. Build up on the rewinder with a small shaft for the exchange reel, and a large shaft for the house reel. Reverse the shafts for breakdown.
Cores with holes were a random thing: some had them and some didn't. Just put a hole-less core on the split to see where the hole is needed and then make one with a screwdriver and hammer.
You're screwed when you get a mini-core though.

Posted by Stephen Furley (Member # 1277) on 08-31-2015, 07:50 AM:

Dave,

When you say 'mini-core' do you mean those things about an inch in diameter with a key inside the bore? I've only ever seen them used for short things like trailers, which are not heavy, and you can just hold them on a finger to wind the film off; getting it back on again if you need to is a different matter.

I thought cores were a universal way to transfer from one size to another, but no. They're not very common, but there are cores with a 9 mm hole.

Posted by Fredrik Sandstrom (Member # 8171) on 08-31-2015, 10:57 AM:

quote: Steve McAndrew
While split reels etc seem plentiful for the re-winder, they don't seem to exist for the Kinoton spindles. Are they available? I have had a quote from a UK company to make a split reel for 9mm spindles but I would think the locating pin would foul on the core?

I have a split reel for 9mm spindles (as that's by far the most common size over here, and the only spindle size I have on all my equipment). The pin in fact mates with the notch in the inside perimeter of standard cores, making the core sit snugly in place.

Posted by Jonathan Wood (Member # 4614) on 09-01-2015, 05:18 PM:

Hi Steve,
9mm split reels definitely exist, I remember buying one a while ago from Jack Roe. Everything I use now though is all 1/2 inch so I no longer have the 9mm split reel. If you need 9mm solid reels then Paul Foster www.fosterfilms.co.uk used to have quite a lot of them. Its also worth looking out for those 6000 foot black plastic Cinemeccanica reels as they have interchangeable centres, I have both 9mm and 1/2 inch centres for mine. I also found that in an emergency a cut down Calpol syringe can make an excellent 9mm centre for a 1/2 inch spool ! not exactly ideal, but it works in a pinch! I think the thing you have to do is use/convert whatever you can to get yourself up and running. You could always try and drill out some of those 5/16 spilt reels you have, after all its not an exact science!