Film-Tech Forum ARCHIVE: Kinoton FP30D to DA20 motor sensor cable

This is topic Kinoton FP30D to DA20 motor sensor cable in forum Film Handlers' Forum at Film-Tech Forum ARCHIVE.

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Posted by Pete Hobday (Member # 8076) on 01-09-2016, 05:03 PM:

Hi all
We're finally upgrading from our good old 1940's Kalee 35mm projector to 2 x Kinoton FP30D's, as unfortunately it's come to the end of it's usable life!

Obviously we're going back to running reel to reel, and will be using a DA20 connected to our existing CP65 to run both analogue and digital prints (the Kinoton's both have dual dolby heads on them), and then running the CP65 into our CP750 where it will meet the inputs from the DCP server and projector

The Kinotons are connected fine to the DA20 and reading all 6 digital channels, we've sorted the pinouts for the cable between the DA20 to the CP65 to get sound running ok through to that, and also have analogue sound running directly to the 65 from each sound head for older analogue prints

Now we're just looking at the motor sensor port on the DA20 (9 pin DSUB connector). The DA20 manual says it's to sense which motor is running to help with changeovers and comes hardwired with the ground pin connected to projector 2, but we want to actually connect it to the Kinoton's to use it to it's full effect

Does anyone know how and where to connect the cables from this 9 pin DSUB on the DA20 into the Kinotons please?

Would be extremely grateful for any replies on this!
Thanks
Pete

Posted by Stephan Shelley (Member # 8587) on 01-09-2016, 06:57 PM:

You will need two relays that the coil voltage is the same as the motor. Connect the coil across the power feed to each motor, so that the respective relay closes when the motor is energized. Then on machine 1 connect pin 1 & 5 across a normally open contact. Machine two pin 5 and 9.

There is a DA20 installation manual in the warehouse section here. Section 2-4 on page 2-9 of that manual address this. PDF page 20.

Posted by Steve Guttag (Member # 268) on 01-09-2016, 09:01 PM:

Do you know the vintage of your FP30D? Odds are, what you need is already available. Kinoton normally has both the "CO" and the "RUN" relays brought down to the main terminal strip. But how it is wired will vary based on vintage, features...etc. that might be on your machines.

Typically the "RUN" signal is available but will be labeled for "ST200" since their platter needs the run signal...something a changeover house won't likely have so those would be available. Projector #2 should have its CO terminals (typically 6 and 7) connected to tell the DA20 that #2 has the picture.

Posted by Jim Cassedy (Member # 4115) on 01-09-2016, 10:33 PM:

Pete-
PM me if you need a scan of the wiring diagram or the manual.
(2009 printing)

Posted by Pete Hobday (Member # 8076) on 01-21-2016, 03:50 PM:

Thanks for the feedback on this...

Have checked both projectors, and according to the manual with them the terminal strip (which is connected in both) has terminals 6 & 7 for C/O - Change over of sound, and 8 & 9 for "res. operating contact RE 1"

Am I right in thinking that I just connect pins 1 & 5 to terminals 6 & 7 on projector 1, and pins 5 & 9 to terminals 6 & 7 on projector 2? Or is there more to it than that?!

Thanks
Pete

Posted by Stephan Shelley (Member # 8587) on 01-21-2016, 08:05 PM:

I will let other more knowledgeable with that projector comment on the specifics of those terminals. What you are looking for is a dry contact that closes when the motor is energized and stays closed till the motor is turn off. If those contacts close when the dowser opens it will not work. The sound will change over late.

Posted by Steve Guttag (Member # 268) on 01-21-2016, 10:23 PM:

No... 6/7 are the changeover lines, not the motor lines. So 6/7 of projector #2 goes to the changeover terminal on the DA20 (so when #2's douser is open, the DA20 knows that it is projector 2 that it should be on, else projector 1.

The motor sense terminals (The "RES" [reserved]terminals) are what go to the motor start DB9 connector.

They "should" be dry-contact terminals if no other wires are going to those terminals.

Posted by Pete Hobday (Member # 8076) on 01-22-2016, 06:27 AM:

OK Steve

So if I use the RES terminals 8 & 9 on each projector (both are empty on the terminal strip) then connect them as I thought to the DB9 1 & 5 for proj 1, 5 & 9 for proj 2 that should sort the motor control issue?

And if so, what are the changeover terminals 6 & 7 for? Assume from what you've said they kick in when the douser is opened, rather than the motor running. But if so where do they connect to either the DA20 or CP65?

Posted by Steve Guttag (Member # 268) on 01-22-2016, 06:54 AM:

They go to the changeover terminal on the CP65 (upper fanning strip) so the CP65 and the DA20 know when you are on projector 2. You'd need to do that for analog audio as well anyway.

You then have a DB25 cable that goes between the DA20 and the CP65 (Typically a ribbon cable) to have the DA20 monitor the changeover as well as what format is pushed and to allow it to revert to SR if needed. You should also have a CAT410 (though not required) to accelerate the fallback to analog (it shortens the "debounce" timing to allow a faster fall back to SR.

Posted by Pete Hobday (Member # 8076) on 01-22-2016, 09:32 AM:

Yeah got the auto sense ribbon cable plus the CAT410 to stop the delay to SR if digital drops out...

Will wire both projectors from the RES terminal ports on the Kinotons to the DA20 DB9 connector then...

And think i've got this right now from checking the back of the 65 that it's just projector 2 that needs connecting from the C/O terminal ports to the auto c/o connections on the top right fanning strip of the 65 (to the left of remote fader)?

As when that switch is actually open it will revert to projector one...?

If that all makes sense and sounds right to you then think i've finally cracked it!!!

Posted by Steve Guttag (Member # 268) on 01-22-2016, 10:42 AM:

Yep, sounds like you are on the right track now.

Posted by Pete Hobday (Member # 8076) on 01-22-2016, 11:47 AM:

That's great, thanks loads for your help!