Film-Tech Forum ARCHIVE: ROGUE ONE A STAR WARS STORY

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Posted by David J Hilsgen (Member # 2614) on 04-07-2016, 02:00 AM:

Is this the next 70mm ultra panavision? release. take a look at the technical specs, on imdb

Posted by Chris Haller (Member # 9206) on 04-07-2016, 09:35 AM:

The film is using the UP70 lenses, but is an all digital production. Unless you hear something over the summer about 70mm prints from Disney, I'd assume it'll be an all digital release, with maybe a handful of 35mm prints, just like The Force Awakens. No IMAX 15/70 scenes, so the likely hood of 15/70mm prints is pretty unlikely.

Posted by Bobby Henderson (Member # 840) on 04-07-2016, 11:59 AM:

I think even the use of 5/70mm prints would be unlikely on this release. Since 3D was mentioned at the end of the trailer, I'm thinking the final product will be a HDTV resolution 2K digital intermediate, just like the last Star Wars movie release.

I have a strong feeling the early Ultra-Panavision hype about Rogue One is misplaced. Chances are very slim the movie will be fully produced with an ultra-wide 2.76:1 aspect ratio. It almost certainly will be cropped at the ends to conform with a 2.39:1 aspect ratio. The only reason why Panavision's 1.25x anamorphic lenses are being used is visual style, not ultra-wide aspect ratio.

The production is using the Arri Alexa 65 camera, which has an image sensor roughly the same size as a 5-perf 65mm film frame. Normally one would use spherical lenses on such a camera, especially if a regular widescreen aspect ratio like 2.39:1 or 2.20:1 is going to be used.

There has been quite a fad in progress revolving around the anamorphic look. I think it is pretentiously done to death so digital "filmmakers" can feel more like they're shooting a "film" rather than a digital video. Anamorphic lenses deliver unique bokeh, flares and exaggerated depth of field effects that give captured material more of that movie look instead of possibly looking like a damned daytime TV soap opera. Shooting Rogue One with a large sensor digital camera, but with anamorphic lenses sticks with that fad.

Maybe at some point the whole anamorphic thing will "jump the shark". It was already ridiculous how so many feature movies were shooting on Red or Arri Alexa using anamorphic lenses when there was no longer any functional need to do so. D-cinema movie theaters show fake 'scope, just lower resolution stuff that has been letter-boxed on the projector sensor. They have no true end to end anamorphic approach like 35mm film had. It's basically a stylistic lie.

The anamorphic fad reached new levels of absurdity with a growing number of TV series (American Crime, True Detective, Fear the Walking Dead and others) adopting the approach. They don't maintain a 2.39:1 aspect ratio; they just crop to 1.77:1 instead.

Judging by the normal 'scope proportions of the first trailer, Rogue One is taking a similar approach. Shoot an image that is effectively 2.76:1 in camera, but cut off the ends to make it normal 'scope. It's all about the anamorphic look.

Posted by Chris Haller (Member # 9206) on 04-07-2016, 03:27 PM:

Yeah, the new trailer confirms just about everything you said above. What I think is goofy, is that the 1.25x squeeze doesn't create as near as dramatic of a look as the 2x squeeze of a traditional anamorphic lens, at least from what I've seen.

Posted by Bobby Henderson (Member # 840) on 04-07-2016, 03:45 PM:

The 1.25x anamorphics are the only ones that will work with that 5/65mm sized frame. The 2:1 units only work with 35mm oriented lens mounts.

IIRC IMAX and Arri are working on some 1.25x anamorphics to fit the Alexa 65 where the squeeze/stretch is done vertically to create a taller image for original aspect ratio (1.43:1) IMAX screens.

All the extra resolution from these new cameras (6.5K for the Alexa 65 and up to 8K on Red's VistaVision sized "Weapon" sensor) is all going to waste as long as Hollywood studios want to keep making 3D a priority and doing nothing to rise above the limits of TV quality 2K. Speaking of Red's new Weapon system, I suppose someone could dig out some vintage Technirama lenses to capture the same 1.25x anamorphic look. And then they can down-rez it to 2K for mass consumption. They could actually use these new camera systems in conjunction with 70mm prints to deliver something better than 4K, if 3D wasn't still so damned important.

The knee-jerk habit of using 2K has now put a giant, purifying stink on the launch of the Ultra-HD Blu-ray format. Most of the new titles on that format are Fake 4K, just up-rezzed bullshit from 2K sources. Fake fake fake. I suppose that's one reason why there's so much hype being thrown behind "HDR."

Posted by Monte L Fullmer (Member # 2797) on 04-07-2016, 03:54 PM:

If the 2.76:1 was to be used, the printdown to 2.39:1 would not affect the original ratio where no cropping would be used.

It would be printed on the 35mm film stock with the slightly large frame lines - giving a slight "letterbox" look, with the image still having the 2x squeeze to be used with standard anamorphics.

When "Ben-Hur" was released for 35mm issues, the printdown from the original Camera 65 negative had the larger "letterbox" frame lines to keep the original ratio on the screen using the standard anamorphics.

For digital, the image kept its original ratio by the slight reduction of the image within the scope container, as with the digital releases of "The Hateful 8".

Posted by Bobby Henderson (Member # 840) on 04-07-2016, 03:57 PM:

If the first trailer for Rogue One is any indication, the movie will be kept at a taller 2.39:1 aspect ratio, just cropping off the left and right ends of the frame.

Considering the fact so many movie theaters now have crappy common width screens, making the movie's frame wider (2.76:1) will only make the picture smaller.

Posted by Chris Haller (Member # 9206) on 04-07-2016, 05:25 PM:

Don't worry, I understand the distinction between standard anamorphics and UP 70!

I was more just trying to say that the effect of using a 1.25x anamorphic isn't nearly as stylistically distinct as a 2x, so that team would be better off just going with spherical optics.

Posted by Stephan Shelley (Member # 8587) on 04-07-2016, 05:43 PM:

Still if the studio thinks they can make an extra buck they might make a limited number of 70mm prints and require a surcharge on the tickets.

While filmed on 65mm with all the CGI special effects the 70mm will come from a digital intermediary.

Posted by Bobby Henderson (Member # 840) on 04-07-2016, 10:08 PM:

Just to clarify, none of the movie is being shot on 65mm film. The only thing "65mm" about it is the size of the image sensor in the Arri Alexa digital camera. That system can use the same cine lenses that were used on 5-perf 65mm film productions, such as The Hateful Eight. Nevertheless it's an all-digital production.

Posted by Mark Gulbrandsen (Member # 72) on 04-09-2016, 10:13 AM:

Disney is just milking the cow now, which is really their main expertise these days.... I'm holding out for Star Wars Saga: The Birth Of 3CPO & R2D2....

Mark

Posted by Manny Knowles (Member # 1171) on 04-09-2016, 09:37 PM:

Using the UP70 lenses.
That's great. It'll be out of focus.

Posted by Bobby Henderson (Member # 840) on 04-10-2016, 01:52 AM:

Yeah. Soft focus in a lot of places. They're basically using a top of the line Arri digital camera (Alexa 65) and then canceling out the benefits of the large sensor by sticking anamorphic lenses in front of the huge 2.20:1 sensor and then cropping the end result. If maintaining the anamorphic look was so important they might as well have shot on a normal Super35 sized Arri Alexa, or better yet a 35mm film-based Panavision film camera. The Alexa 65 is meant to deliver high quality scope footage without any trade-offs from using anamorphic lenses.

Posted by Mike Blakesley (Member # 26) on 04-10-2016, 01:54 PM:

quote: Mark Gulbrandsen
Disney is just milking the cow now, which is really their main expertise these days.

They can milk that cow all they want, as long as they continue to make good movies that put butts in the seats. I don't think any company is as consistently good at putting out crowd-pleasing movies as Disney is.