Film-Tech Forum ARCHIVE: 35mm acetate color composite positive print w/o cues...

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Posted by Jamie Thomas Baldys (Member # 8755) on 05-18-2016, 02:20 PM:

Greetings,

I am a film preservation student and I'm working on a collection management project. I am inspecting 35mm acetate composite positive films from the 1970's and 1980's and have come across a few prints that are missing motor-start and change-over cues AND they have B&H negative perfs. Anyone have any idea why this may be? Also, one of the prints is missing the MS and CO cues but has Kodak Standard perfs.

Thanks!
Jamie

Posted by Steve Kraus (Member # 476) on 05-18-2016, 06:34 PM:

Are you certain they are release prints? Do they have an orange cast (like negative)? That would be an interpositive.

Posted by Leo Enticknap (Member # 534) on 05-18-2016, 07:29 PM:

They could also be "taping prints," made on low contrast print stock (e.g. Kodak 2395), which are intended for telecine or scanning, not theatrical projection. Because the light source in a telecine or scanner is so much weaker than that of a theater projector, the image needs to be lower contrast in order for the full range of midtones to be picked up. A theatrical release print scanned or telecined for broadcast, DVD/BD mastering, etc., will typically lack this detail (e.g. creases on foreheads, lapels on dark suit jackets, that sort of thing). A taping print shown in a theater will look a bit dim and flat all over, even with the amps cranked up a bit.

My memory about this is a bit hazy, but IIRC, many taping stocks were available with both perforation types.

A lot of taping prints of repetory titles have found their way into the studio archives' circulating print collections that are sent to theaters. I guess their thinking is that after the video master has been made, they might as well do something with the print, and so they make it available to the odd arthouse or revival house that wants to play the movie on 35mm. I probably get one every couple of months, and they never look very good.

That having been said, some labs routinely did not put cues on their release prints, especially French ones. If you ever get a theatrical release print from LTC or Eclair that has been well used, you'll likely find several different sets of DIY cues on them, including grease pencil slashes, punch holes, Clint Phare-scribed cues, you name it. You'd have to be legally blind to miss a changeover when showing one of these copies.

Posted by Jamie Thomas Baldys (Member # 8755) on 05-19-2016, 08:57 AM:

Thank you both for responding. The stock is clear, so I'm guessing it's not an interpositive. I should have mentioned the stock color (or lack of color) in my post...sorry about that.

Leo, this is wonderful information and I'm going to research this further. THANK YOU!!

Posted by Scott Norwood (Member # 30) on 05-19-2016, 09:07 AM:

Is the emulsion on the usual side? If not, they may be reversal dupes. I don't know if these exist in 35mm, but it is possible. Sound quality on these is usually quite poor.

Posted by Mitchell Dvoskin (Member # 751) on 05-19-2016, 10:28 AM:

> If not, they may be reversal dupes.

Yes, they did exist, however they tend to have a "black" rather than clear (Dolby Digital) sprocket area.

Posted by Leo Enticknap (Member # 534) on 05-19-2016, 11:56 AM:

Jamie - can you post some pictures of this stock, including edge code(s)?

Yes, you do get the occasional reversal dupe from another release print; usually an optical 35mm to 16mm reduction, but occasionally a 35mm contact print. Needless to say, they don't look good.