Film-Tech Forum ARCHIVE: What is going to happen to the equipment we have at home?

This is topic What is going to happen to the equipment we have at home? in forum Film Handlers' Forum at Film-Tech Forum ARCHIVE.

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Posted by Steve Roberts (Member # 9544) on 09-07-2016, 05:51 PM:

For a long time the number of collectors of 35mm film and projectors has fallen as more and more collectors are dyeing and there is no new blood coming in.
One case I have just been told of, a collector who was 90 years old had offered all his films and equipment free of charge to anyone who would use it. The whole lot including a 1934 BTH amplifier worth over £7000 to the Hi-Fi collectors went in the skip with all the film because no one wanted it.
I spoke to a collector friend last week who said when he can no longer lift a reel of film he will scrap the lot so his children do not have to.
One ray of hope is a young man who has built a 1970's style cinema in his garden but his thing is to recreate the atmosphere
of the 1970's, If the program he is watching is film or a DVD or Blue-ray.
Are we witnessing the end of the film collector?

Posted by Leo Enticknap (Member # 534) on 09-07-2016, 06:37 PM:

I think we probably are witnessing the end of the film collector, and for broader reasons.

1 - The preservation and projection of film is becoming more institutionalized, centered on the big non-profit archives and the few venues (one of which I am really lucky to be working at) that are making a long-term commitment to "doing film right." Outside that world, the stock of prints in private hands is continuing to deteriorate to acetate and nitrate decomposition (because hardly any private collectors can afford cool and dry storage), and equipment is becoming harder to maintain.

2 - Online, streaming media is moving the "younger generation" (never thought I'd be saying that, aged "only" 44!) away from the physical ownership of objects to the expectation that the storage of stuff is handled by experts in data centers in "the cloud," and that all they need to do is click a mouse and it comes down the wire. Motivated by anti-piracy paranoia, the media giants are encouraging this: I wouldn't be surprised if the BD is the last mass-media offline consumer storage format.

As a sidebar, the "vinyl revival" appears to be the exception to this rule, because, I'd guess, it's being driven in part by audiophile technology geeks on the one side, and by the other by consumers who want collectible sleeve artwork, etc.

When I emigrated from Yorkshire to California, I had to hand over a pristine, well loved Eiki NT3 and an Elmo ST160 to the house clearance people on my penultimate day as a British resident. I'd offered them to a local archive and various others - no-one wanted them, and I ran out of time to Ebay them. I did tell the house clearance guy that if he took the time to find the right buyer, he should get a few hundred quid for each machine: I hope they didn't end up in landfill. I don't doubt that a lot of film-related equipment that would be really valued by someone disappears from existence under similar circumstances. There was so much to be done against such a hard deadline (vacating my flat by handover date, movers picking up my stuff for international shipping, etc.) as I was preparing to move, that this slipped through the cracks. I still wish that I'd eaten the extra cost and shipped them here.

Posted by Mike Blakesley (Member # 26) on 09-07-2016, 08:37 PM:

quote: Leo Enticknap
I wouldn't be surprised if the BD is the last mass-media offline consumer storage format.

I fear you might be right on this, but I sure hope it's not true.

I really enjoy making DCPs out of my favorite old movies and playing them in the theatre after we're closed. (Don't worry, studios, you're not losing anything here...nobody's watching but me and sometimes my wife.) I suppose there will always be some way to rip a streamed movie into a file and DCP-ize it, or at least I hope there will be.

Posted by Tom Ostertag (Member # 8318) on 09-07-2016, 11:44 PM:

I'm a 25 year-old collector of 35mm and 16mm film and projection equipment. My collection is far more extensive in 16mm, with several dozen projectors and hundreds of prints, but I'm putting the finishing touches on my dedicated and well-equipped home 35mm screening room now. I have a handful of 35mm prints and shorts, but I've found that collectors around here are a real rarity, of any age.

I've put most of my effort into looking for 35mm film lately, and would absolutely love to find some collections looking for a good home! Hearing of collections getting trashed due to a lack of interest is quite upsetting.

I'm a broadcast television engineer professionally, and I know that's a population that's dwindling as well. I sure know how to pick my interests!

I also collect broadcast television production equipment (VTRs, switchers, cameras, etc.), and vintage computers. I could go on and on...

I've been interested in film since I was 7 or 8 years old though, getting my first 8mm projector around then. I haven't stopped since!

Posted by Jacob Pearson (Member # 9224) on 09-08-2016, 03:36 PM:

I'm 17 years old and started collecting film this year and I bought two film projectors at the end of last year. They are Sondor Nova machines. One runs 35mm and the other can run 16mm and 35mm, however I don't have the 16mm parts for it. So far I have collected 2x 35mm Trailers, 1x 16mm Feature and 2x 35mm features. I have another 35mm feature on its way from the US (Pink Floyd - The Wall).

I haven't managed to watch any of them yet as I am still in the process buying the required cinema equipment and I don't have lots of money to spend so I am slowly saving up and building up my home cinema piece by piece, but it will be well worth it when it's complete.

I would also love to find collections looking for a good home. It's really sad to hear of collections and equipment being thrown in the skip like that, when I can make good use of them.

Posted by Bill Brandenstein (Member # 7758) on 09-08-2016, 05:09 PM:

Tom & Jacob, so glad to see the film bug still bites young people. Welcome to the happiest black hole on earth (it sucks you in and there's no escape).

Posted by Monte L Fullmer (Member # 2797) on 09-08-2016, 07:10 PM:

Mike, don't you have an HDMI, or at least, a DVI connection on that projector?

Need to get your tech over there to write you a program for your GDC to enable the HDMI/DVI port, and create a separate preset macro to have the correct color space to make your presentations look normal from this AUX source, so you can simply hook up a player to this port to play your after hours (or, even paid special events) content directly.

-Monte

Posted by Justin Hamaker (Member # 2165) on 09-08-2016, 08:08 PM:

About 2 years ago I took a friend's old Victrola to a local repair shop. He is one of only two or three people in the country who still work on the machines. He has a huge warehouse full of parts and seems to have a real passion for what he's doing. However, he acknowledge he was getting old and didn't know how long he would continue. I asked him if he had an apprentice, and he said he doesn't have anyone who is interested - including his 4 kids.

Although film is still (more or less) a current technology, it's not really something the younger generation as a whole is really interested in.

One of the things that will probably hasten the demise of the collectors market is there will be increasingly less of a community. This means fewer people to network with to find parts and film, and fewer people to share the passion with.

I think the revival of vinyl is partially because there are plenty of records still to be found, and the cost of "hobby" are relatively minor. Many of today's kids probably have parents or grandparents who still have boxes of old records. While I don't really have an affinity for the sound of records, I do enjoy the experience of flipping through albums and looking at the covers and artwork.

Posted by Bill Brandenstein (Member # 7758) on 09-08-2016, 09:14 PM:

...and vinyl doesn't take an engineering degree (or projectionist's training) to fire up and get noise out of!

Posted by Mark Gulbrandsen (Member # 72) on 09-11-2016, 09:22 AM:

quote: Monte L Fullmer
Mike, don't you have an HDMI, or at least, a DVI connection on that projector?

Yes, the SX-3000 has an HDMI input. Just make up a show called HDMI and put the HDMI from the content list in the Show Play List. I believe its under "Streaming" in the content list. Once the show is made and loaded just put the server into play to switch to the HDMI input. The projector there also has dual DVI-D inputs as well...

Mark

Posted by Ian Partridge (Member # 9377) on 09-11-2016, 11:21 AM:

It does appear that film collectors have grown less.

It did not help when film societies turned away from film projection.

It takes an effort to run and watch film, even at home.

In my own experience, I discovered there were local film collectors who had built their own garden cinemas in retirement and it was possible for five of us to get together for film showings. Not having the space at home, I would take a print (and projector) of my own to the shows. Unfortunately two of the group "hopped the twig" through age, and the enthusiasm seemed to die with them.

I agree you cannot even give stuff away. I recently gave a small 35mm silent Zeiss wooden box 'suitcase' projector free. I was badgered to email photos and descriptions. When the chap arrived to collect it, he said it was too heavy for him to lift and could he come back later with a friend so they could break it up and leave the unwanted case bits with me to dispose of.

This was the whole point - I wanted the space with it gone and to know that someone would make use of it. The outcome was that I wasted more effort dismantling the whole thing myself and then giving it free to a dealer who I had to expend more time explaining why and what it was.

It is encouraging to learn from this forum thread that there are younger film enthusiasts left that will continue to keep film alive.

Ian

Posted by Frank Cox (Member # 6258) on 09-11-2016, 02:27 PM:

Same thing with mechanical clocks. I have two mechanical clocks -- a mantel clock that's who-knows-how-old and an bulkhead-mount clock from a Soviet submarine.

The old clockmaker who used to clean and maintain them for me is long gone and I've never managed to find anyone else who does that kind of work. The mantel clock stopped working a few years ago but my submarine clock is still working fine. (The clockmaker told me that in all of the years he had been working on clocks, he had never before seen a clockwork quite like the works in my submarine clock.)

Posted by Will Kutler (Member # 770) on 09-11-2016, 03:35 PM:

Plenty of top-end horologists out there. Surf the internet. RGM comes to mind.....

Posted by Mike Blakesley (Member # 26) on 09-11-2016, 08:48 PM:

quote: Mark Gulbrandsen
Yes, the SX-3000 has an HDMI input. Just make up a show called HDMI and put the HDMI from the content list in the Show Play List.

Wouldn't you then still have to fart around with BluRays and their stupid menus, on-screen icons and such? I like to make DCPs, that way I can make a full show with trailers and a cartoon or whatever and actually be able to sit down and enjoy the movie like the good Lord intended.

Posted by Monte L Fullmer (Member # 2797) on 09-12-2016, 02:39 AM:

Nice thing about having HDMI ... hook up your X-BOX One via HDMI, with wifi remotes and play Halo all night on the big screen.

Posted by Mark Gulbrandsen (Member # 72) on 09-12-2016, 12:11 PM:

quote: Mike Blakesley
Wouldn't you then still have to fart around with BluRays and their stupid menus, on-screen icons and such?

Yes....

Posted by Martin McCaffery (Member # 37) on 09-12-2016, 12:39 PM:

quote: Mike Blakesley
I like to make DCPs, that way I can make a full show with trailers and a cartoon or whatever

Just curious Mike, when you do this, do you include a Please Turn Off You Cell Phone snipe? [evil]

Posted by Leo Enticknap (Member # 534) on 09-12-2016, 11:24 PM:

Farting about with stupid menus is just one of the many reasons I avoid playing to an audience direct from BDs and DVDs unless there is absolutely no alternative. I was recently interrogated by a newly arrived manager as to why I made DCPs from the stuff that we occasionally have to source on DVD or BD. He has clearly never had to play ten 2-minute clips from multiple discs in a box set in quick succession, or been in the audience during the 2-3 minutes of blank screen each time while the disc changing is taking place.

Posted by Jesse Skeen (Member # 586) on 09-14-2016, 05:43 PM:

I'll be happy to take any unwanted film equipment or films off anyone's hands! [Smile]

Didn't realize there was such low demand for it- I thought it would be increasing after theaters got rid of their film projectors!

Posted by Mark Gulbrandsen (Member # 72) on 09-14-2016, 08:20 PM:

I sent all my platter systems to the dump. I gave everything else away except my Double Mut, PK-60D, Panastero based sound system and Super Lum-Ex lamphouse. I also kept all my Stong Switchers because they still pertain to Super Trooper Spotlights and all my Phillips FP-56 as they are rare as hens teeth in this country.

Mark