Film-Tech Forum ARCHIVE: FilmGuard Effects on Plastic Reels

This is topic FilmGuard Effects on Plastic Reels in forum Film Handlers' Forum at Film-Tech Forum ARCHIVE.

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Posted by David Brigner (Member # 9974) on 04-25-2017, 09:11 PM:

First, let me say that I'm jealous of all of you who have had the opportunity to make a career out of film projection and restorative archival. Since I was a little kid and Dad let me be "projectionist" with the Showtime 8 and our family vacation movies, I was hooked. I still have the projector (it works perfectly) and all our family memories, which leads me to the reason for posting...

I've decided to tackle doing a frame-by-frame digitization of all the old 8mm I have. The film seems to be in good shape in their cans/boxes, but regardless, I thought I would start by cleaning and lubricating the film, some of which dates back to the mid 50s.

I ran across FilmGuard disciples all over the 'net, so I believe that will be the way I go, albeit by hand, using a wet microfiber cloth in one direction, and a dry one in reverse. I've even found some NIB Craig rewinds for the project.

My question is this: several of the 5" and 7" reels I have are plastic of some sort. Can film treated with FilmGuard be safely stored long term on plastic reels, or should I consider winding them back onto steel reels after cleaning/treatment? Someone online was saying that FG would damage plastic over time, so I don't want to take the chance. Bear in mind that I don't know the composition of the plastic reels (they are most likely not archival grade), nor the film.

Also, I've run into many conflicting methods on how to clean film by hand, so if there is a definitive or accepted way to do this that anyone could point me to, I'd be very grateful.

Cheers!
-David

Posted by Brad Miller (Member # 2) on 04-25-2017, 09:44 PM:

Your friend is confusing products. FilmGuard will not damage plastic reels. You are fine.

Posted by Leo Enticknap (Member # 534) on 04-27-2017, 11:24 AM:

If my microfiber you mean like the ones O'Reillys sells for waxing cars, then the fibers aren't really micro enough. The best case scenario is that some of the fibers will come off on the film; the worst is that a piece of abrasive crud will lodge in between them, and scratch the film that is wound along it thereafter.

One option that is used in at least two of the world's leading film archives that I'm aware of, are Selvyt cloths. The surface is smooth enough that it's near impossible for bits of debris to get caught in them, and they hold enough moisture to apply the FG evenly. They can also be washed in a regular laundry machine. I've used Selvyts impregnated with Filmguard for bench cleaning many times, and with good results.

The only potential gotcha I'd flag up is as follows. When I first started using FG for bench cleaning in England in the late '90s, I found that it would sometimes dissolve the glue in tape splices, making them come apart in projection. There then followed about ten years when I was working in jobs that didn't involve any film handling, until I went back into the booth in 2014, having emigrated to the US in the meantime. Since then I've used FG-impregnated Selvyts for bench cleaning a few times, including on reels with tape splices in them, and have not had this problem at all.

So maybe this problem was specific to the Jack Roe splicing tape sold in the UK, and the others are all OK. But I would still be inclined to check any reel with tape splices in it, say, 20 minutes after treatment, before putting them through a scanner or any other film transport.

Posted by Bill Brandenstein (Member # 7758) on 04-27-2017, 09:33 PM:

In my more limited experience using FG on 16mm, you'd have to dump a LOT of FG on it to dissolve most tape splices, which is essentially to soak it. But you're not supposed to soak the film with it, only coat it, which doesn't seem to soften the adhesive enough to separate it.

Posted by David Brigner (Member # 9974) on 04-28-2017, 08:15 AM:

I've seen folks mention using FilmRenew for soaking film in really bad shape; it would have to be an act of last resort, I would think.

It was also noted that FilmRenew could loosen splices, but not FilmGuard. But they said that ANY slow drying treatment (like FilmGuard) be used with steel reels only, which is why I originally posted. Apparently, plastic reels will discolor; to me, that says that there is some kind of long-term degradation taking place, so now I'm confused as to the type of cleaner to use, as well.

Leo, I planned on using Pec-Pads for the process, but will look into the Selvyt cloths you mention.

Posted by David Brigner (Member # 9974) on 05-19-2017, 03:00 PM:

So, I'm going to go the FilmGuard route, in conjunction with PecPads. Have not yet decided on the type of reels to use for long term storage - maybe eventually the Tuscan reels/cans.

But tell me, where can I purchase smaller amounts of FilmGuard? The smallest quantity I've found is 32 ounces. I probably have less than 1k feet of film to deal with, and from what I've read, a little goes a long way.

Posted by Monte L Fullmer (Member # 2797) on 05-19-2017, 03:21 PM:

quote: David Brigner
I probably have less than 1k feet of film to deal with, and from what I've read, a little goes a long way.

Little secret about FG:

It's a great lubricant where ever a squeak is heard, a fantastic adhesive and tar remover.

It's better than WD40.

-Monte

Posted by David Brigner (Member # 9974) on 05-19-2017, 04:13 PM:

Thanks, Monte. Good to know. Maybe TurtleWax tar and bug remover would work just as well on film... lol

So 32oz is the smallest quantity of FilmGuard available, then?

Posted by David Brigner (Member # 9974) on 05-29-2017, 07:59 PM:

So, from the deafening silence, I assume 32oz is the minimum quantity available, then. I guess I can put the leftovers next to that can of hardly used WD-40 that I've had for 30 years...

So, the next question is, where in the heck do you buy the stuff? I've visited the approved distributor links, but all seem to deal with professional equipment, etc. but I've not seen anyone carrying FilmGuard.

Posted by Adam Martin (Member # 641) on 05-29-2017, 08:14 PM:

https://www.amazon.com/dp/B00DU20TZ6

Posted by David Brigner (Member # 9974) on 05-29-2017, 08:53 PM:

Thanks, Adam. Wow, pricier than I expected. That's the only place it's available? I would have expected B&H, Urbanski, or some of the other photo/film houses to carry it, which to me would truly speak to its efficacy and popularity.

Posted by Brad Miller (Member # 2) on 05-29-2017, 10:54 PM:

B&H deals with bulk items for the mass consumer.

Urbanski is a guy shipping stuff out of his house to mostly small gauge hobbyists.

Posted by David Brigner (Member # 9974) on 05-30-2017, 08:02 PM:

Yeah, I was just hoping I could find someone who serves the hobbyist/one-time project crowd like me, with smaller quantities to match. Looks like I'll have enough left over to keep my local cineplex in stock for a while...

Posted by Jason Metcalfe (Member # 5739) on 05-31-2017, 04:58 PM:

Does anyone have experience using Webril Wipes for film cleaning?

Posted by Mitchell Dvoskin (Member # 751) on 06-01-2017, 09:16 AM:

> Does anyone have experience using Webril Wipes for film cleaning?

I tried them years ago, and although I had no problems, I felt that they were potentially too abrasive for film cleaning, so I stopped using them.

Posted by Victor Liorentas (Member # 5272) on 06-01-2017, 11:00 AM:

I use soft white cotton cloth when cleaning by hand.