Film-Tech Forum ARCHIVE: Wonder Woman in 5/70mm

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Posted by Stephan Shelley (Member # 8587) on 05-04-2017, 04:03 PM:

Grand Lake is confirmed for one of the 10 prints.

Posted by Brad Miller (Member # 2) on 05-06-2017, 09:08 PM:

LOOK Cinemas is booked in 5/70 as well. (Studio Movie Grill is sitting this one out just like they did with Batman vs. Superman.)

Posted by David J Hilsgen (Member # 2614) on 05-15-2017, 10:27 PM:

Willow Creek in plymouth.MN got confirmed for Wonder Woman in 70MM .

Posted by Mark Gulbrandsen (Member # 72) on 05-16-2017, 12:05 PM:

Praying for a decent 70mm movie to come along. So sick of comic book crap.

Mark

Posted by Kenneth Wuepper (Member # 1174) on 05-16-2017, 02:26 PM:

How about restoring "Hello Dolly" in 5/70

Posted by Kenneth Wuepper (Member # 1174) on 05-16-2017, 02:27 PM:

I would love to see a restored 5/70 of "Fiddler on the Roof"

Posted by Paul Mayer (Member # 355) on 05-16-2017, 07:18 PM:

Well, we do have Dunkirk in 5/70 coming in July... [Smile]

Posted by Steven Warrington (Member # 9983) on 05-24-2017, 03:12 PM:

In NYC, City Cinemas 1,2,3 is screening a 70mm print.

Posted by Thomas Hauerslev (Member # 566) on 05-24-2017, 03:38 PM:

in 70mm:

WILLOW CREEK 12 - Plymouth, MN
City Cinemas 1,2,3, NYC,
RENAISSANCE GRAND LAKE THEATRE - Oakland
LOOK Cinemas, Texas
Gateway Film Center, Columbus, Ohio
ArcLight Sherman Oaks, CA
ArcLight Cinerama Dome, CA
Cineplex Cinemas Varsity, Toronto, Canada

Posted by Mark Gulbrandsen (Member # 72) on 05-25-2017, 08:52 AM:

Dunkirk... Pffft! A great historical story for sure. But told in multiple film formats again and with no theaters left to properly show it in.

Todays directors are pretty much right out of the toilet.

Mark

Posted by Dave Macaulay (Member # 813) on 05-25-2017, 10:58 AM:

I expect Dunkirk to fall flat in the USA. Without the Americans being the heros that save the day (and world), nobody will care about it.

Posted by Sam D. Chavez (Member # 1841) on 05-25-2017, 06:43 PM:

You're cynical but you're right. Of course it does show the Brits getting trounced so our many xenophobic citizens might love it.

Posted by Frank Angel (Member # 248) on 05-25-2017, 10:11 PM:

I guess everyone forgets that it was the British were the ones came over here and tried to kill us all...they weren't such buddy buddy friends back then. And it was the French who we mock now but who backed us up and saved our asses more than once.

Posted by Sam D. Chavez (Member # 1841) on 05-26-2017, 12:58 AM:

Some of us remember the French loaned money when no one would, not the Dutch and certainly not the Brits

Posted by Bobby Henderson (Member # 840) on 05-26-2017, 09:57 PM:

quote: Dave Macaulay
I expect Dunkirk to fall flat in the USA. Without the Americans being the heros that save the day (and world), nobody will care about it.

I can't remember if Das Boot made a lot of money in its theatrical release back in the early 1980's. But it was at least a remarkable critical success, racking up several Oscar nominations (including Best Director for Wolfgang Petersen). That movie was popular here in the United States, regardless of it being a German language movie and one featuring German Navy U-boat men as the protagonists. The movie was still very terrifying and entertaining. I personally think it's one of the best war movies ever made.

With that being said, I wouldn't pass judgment on Dunkirk just yet. I would be more concerned if it had some corny "Murrphh!!" moments like Interstellar.

Posted by Aron Toplitsky (Member # 6950) on 06-01-2017, 05:51 PM:

I noticed according to imdb that Wonder Woman was shot on Super 35. When they output to 70MM, is that from a digital master or blown up from the Super 35 negative?

Posted by Bill Brandenstein (Member # 7758) on 06-01-2017, 06:28 PM:

Just had a look at the Deluxe Projectionist Letter, and the release for both 2D and 3D is only 2K. And untrustworthy IMDB mentions a digital intermediate specifically at 2K. So let's not hold our breath for breathtaking clarity here.

Posted by Martin Brooks (Member # 1269) on 06-02-2017, 09:38 AM:

quote: Bobby Henderson
I can't remember if Das Boot made a lot of money in its theatrical release back in the early 1980's. But it was at least a remarkable critical success, racking up several Oscar nominations (including Best Director for Wolfgang Petersen). That movie was popular here in the United States, regardless of it being a German language movie and one featuring German Navy U-boat men as the protagonists. The movie was still very terrifying and entertaining. I personally think it's one of the best war movies ever made.

You're talking about a different time and an era when intelligent adults still went to the movies and not necessarily to see comic book and superhero movies (although there were always popcorn films that appealed to everyone).

My bet is that the average young American, even the average young college-educated American, can't tell you the years of World War II and can't tell you who we fought and who were our allies. Assuming I'm correct, those people are not going to be interested in this movie. The battles they want to see are with aliens, superheroes, monsters or car gangs. Regardless of how critically acclaimed it is, I think it's going to fail commercially in theaters as most intelligent films do these days.

According to Box Office Mojo, "Das Boot" had a domestic lifetime box-office of just under $11.5 million. That's the equivalent of about $28.9 million in 2017 dollars.

The top 15 grossing (domestic) films so far in 2017 are:
Beauty and the Beast
Guardians, Vol. 2
Logan
The Fate of the Furious
the LEGO Batman Movie
Get Out
The Boss Baby
Kong: Skull Island
Split
Fifty Shades Darker
John Wick: Chapter Two
Pirates: Dead Men Tell No Tales
Power Rangers
A Dog's Purpose
Alien: Covenant

What does that tell us?

Not that the top films of 1982 were all that much better, but there is a little more diversity and maturity:
E.T.
Tootsie
An Officer and a Gentlemen
Rocky III
Porky's
Star Trek II: The Wrath of Khan
48 HRS.
Poltergeist
The Best Little Whorehouse in Texas
Annie
The Verdict
Gandhi
First Blood
The Toy
Firefox.

Posted by Bobby Henderson (Member # 840) on 06-02-2017, 10:30 AM:

quote: Martin Brooks
You're talking about a different time and an era when intelligent adults still went to the movies and not necessarily to see comic book and superhero movies (although there were always popcorn films that appealed to everyone).

That's unfair to put all the blame for today's glut of super hero movies all on the average consumer. Millennials in particular are a popular scapegoat for every annoying problem these days (for example: compulsive mobile phone use) when just as many Gen-X and Baby Boom people are flat out guilty of the same damned thing.

Here's the real problem: The difference between now and 1982 is not every big movie studio was owned by a much bigger global media company totally obsessed with the stock ticker. The studios had more independence with making creative choices. Sequel-itis had not yet infected the production slate of every studio. Today movie studios are being strangled in the iron-fisted grip of Save The Cat bean counter tyranny. They're not allowed to take any chances anymore. Unfortunately the strategy of selling the customer the same old shit produces a product that is not very entertaining.

That Top 15 list from 1982 contained only 2 sequels (both of which were actually good movies and big hits). Most of the other 13 non-sequel movies on that list are now classics.

That Top 15 of 2017 (so far) has only 4 original movies in it. The rest are sequels and re-boots of some sort. This year's summer movie season is off to its worst start in overall ticket sales since 1999.

Most people who still visit movie theaters, whether they're young or older, just want to get out of the house and see something at the theater. Over the past couple decades and increasingly in recent years the customer has been forced to pick the least shitty flick from a collection of derivative, high priced yet predictable slop movies. Box office performance has been getting dodgy lately because more people are finally getting tired of picking the lesser of all evils at the box office. They're doing something else for fun rather than going to the theater.

quote: Martin Brooks
My bet is that the average young American, even the average young college-educated American, can't tell you the years of World War II and can't tell you who we fought and who were our allies. Assuming I'm correct, those people are not going to be interested in this movie. The battles they want to see are with aliens, superheroes, monsters or car gangs. Regardless of how critically acclaimed it is, I think it's going to fail commercially in theaters as most intelligent films do these days.

If all that was true then why is there such a great variety of series TV on cable and streaming services right now? A lot of these shows take big chances -like Game of Thrones murdering off its main character early in the series. There are some super hero series, but lots of other more brainy series like Downton Abbey and House of Cards are popular.

I have subscriptions to Amazon Prime and Netflix. I rarely ever watch traditional 2 hour Hollywood movies on either one of those services. It's almost always some TV series or something else like a stand up comedy special or documentary. The same goes for cable TV. I don't subscribe to HBO for the movies. If HBO didn't have some really good TV series I wouldn't pay for it. As it stands, I may get rid of Dish and get HBO Now.

Posted by Aron Toplitsky (Member # 6950) on 06-02-2017, 08:17 PM:

I recently came across a term I'm not familiar with on 70MM.com. It mentions "OAR Blow Ups" anyone know what OAR is?

Posted by Shawn M. Martin (Member # 6762) on 06-02-2017, 08:53 PM:

Original aspect ratio.

Posted by Aron Toplitsky (Member # 6950) on 06-02-2017, 08:56 PM:

Ha ha! Wow, how could I not see that? Thanks!

Posted by Stephan Shelley (Member # 8587) on 06-02-2017, 10:04 PM:

While not Academe Award material Porky's is a guilty pleasure. A lot of nasty fun, much like the first Hangover film a few years back.

Posted by Martin Brooks (Member # 1269) on 06-04-2017, 01:22 PM:

quote: Bobby Henderson
If all that was true then why is there such a great variety of series TV on cable and streaming services right now? A lot of these shows take big chances -like Game of Thrones murdering off its main character early in the series. There are some super hero series, but lots of other more brainy series like Downton Abbey and House of Cards are popular.

I think TV is actually doing a far better job than the movie industry in terms of seeking intelligent adult material, although some would argue that "Game of Thrones" is really about excessive violence and nudity. There's also the advantage of being able to tell a much longer story: "Game of Thrones" has been a 60-hour movie so far. Shows on premium networks like HBO and Showtime are special cases because the individual titles serve only to retain or acquire subscribers - it actually doesn't matter what the audience is for an individual show, although HBO did cancel "Vinyl" due to 'poor ratings'.

And while "Game of Thrones" has a large budget, most of the great TV shows have far smaller budgets than movies and as such, rely a lot less on special effects and explosions. Therefore they have to rely upon plot, exposition and character development.

People also watch TV and go to the movies with a different psychology. If "The Americans" were a movie, it would do little business, although it's been successful on TV.

Having said that, most of these TV shows, even the culturally significant ones, actually have relatively few people watching, since the market is so fragmented. The last season of "Game of Thrones" averaged 7.69 million viewers per episode, which is quite good (although would be a failure if a movie), but the just completed season of "The Americans" averaged just 744,000 viewers. In the UK, Downton Abbey gets about 11 million viewers per episode, but it's probably far less in the U.S., even though we have almost 5x the population. We don't know the audience for "House of Cards" because it's on Netflix.

Posted by Daniel Schulz (Member # 1881) on 06-04-2017, 03:11 PM:

quote: Aron Toplitsky
I noticed according to imdb that Wonder Woman was shot on Super 35. When they output to 70MM, is that from a digital master or blown up from the Super 35 negative?

It would be from the Digital Intermediate. All of the editorial, CGI compositing, color grading etc is done in the digital domain. The only filmmaker doing a true photochemical finish is Nolan.

Posted by Stephan Shelley (Member # 8587) on 06-07-2017, 02:03 PM:

And Tarantino. Certainly H8 was photochemical all the way on the 70mm prints.

Posted by Daniel Schulz (Member # 1881) on 06-07-2017, 11:40 PM:

quote: Stephan Shelley
And Tarantino. Certainly H8 was photochemical all the way on the 70mm prints.

Of course, how could I have forgotten that!

I think PT Anderson's latest efforts have all been photochemical as well, with the 70mm prints being blown up optically from the 35mm.

Posted by Tyler Purcell (Member # 9213) on 06-11-2017, 10:47 PM:

Just wanna say, Fotokem banged it out of the park with that Wonder Woman 70mm print. I went today to Arclight Sherman Oaks and they not only fixed their projector, but holy shit was it a perfect presentation. No dirt, no scratches, no registration problems, the print looked like it came out of the soup minutes previously and even the splices were perfect. The guys over there did a bang up job and even though the movie wasn't anything to write home about, I was really happy to see another great presentation on 70mm.

The 10 minutes of Dunkirk blew my mind away tho, I can't wait for that movie!

Posted by Bill Brandenstein (Member # 7758) on 06-13-2017, 05:50 PM:

Glad someone finally made it over there to see it. I almost did 10 days ago but fell through, then went out of town. Ended up seeing it in Edwards recliners out of town. The recliners were sweet, the show was fun, but the presentation was poor, typical Edwards.

Back OT: Tyler, an awesome print from 2K is still an awesome print. Is there any reason to think, however, the 70mm was sourced from better-than-2K?

Posted by Tyler Purcell (Member # 9213) on 06-13-2017, 10:16 PM:

quote: Bill Brandenstein
Back OT: Tyler, an awesome print from 2K is still an awesome print. Is there any reason to think, however, the 70mm was sourced from better-than-2K?

From what I can tell, they used the standard post workflow; 6k scan and 4k finish. It was absolutely made from a 4k master, it was far too crisp and didn't have any aliasing lines, which are very common with 2k masters.

Posted by Bill Brandenstein (Member # 7758) on 06-20-2017, 02:54 PM:

Hi Tyler, we got to see this yesterday at Arclight Sherman Oaks, and sat close! It was a wonderful experience (no pun intended, really).

Since we sat close, we were able to appreciate details missed the first time, as well as seeing some minor scratching issues that appeared regularly but intermittently.

However, I must respectfully disagree with you that it's a 4K finish. The Dunkirk trailer was sharper, though not as much so as expected. WW's film grain was regularly visible but never was there a time when I thought the image was amazingly sharp. As far as aliasing goes, the film-out-to-negative was handled very, very well to minimize this sort of thing, but there was some visible in the large block-letter credits, particularly in the subtly dancing size of the edges of any letter "E", or the top edge of the "Water Tower Music" logo. So, for what it's worth, my son and I are firmly convinced it's only 2K.

Does that invalidate the experience? No. To maximize the clarity of a 2K format, to put color, steadiness, and brightness on a screen of that size via 70mm, is an absolute treat. Just not a super crispy one.

Posted by David J Hilsgen (Member # 2614) on 07-15-2017, 06:12 PM:

We are going into 7th week of wonder woman, this will be the first in a long time, going from one 70mm to the 70mm with Dunkirk

Posted by Stephan Shelley (Member # 8587) on 07-15-2017, 06:20 PM:

Grand Lake ended the WW 70mm last Thursday. One week break till Dunkirk.