Film-Tech Forum ARCHIVE: Who is showing Justice League in 70mm?

This is topic Who is showing Justice League in 70mm? in forum Film Handlers' Forum at Film-Tech Forum ARCHIVE.

To visit this topic, use this URL:
https://ft-forum.com/ft/cgi-bin/ubb/ultimatebb.cgi?ubb=get_topic;f=1;t=012211

Posted by Stephan Shelley (Member # 8587) on 10-18-2017, 05:01 PM:

Grand Lake in Oakland CA just got notice from Warner's that we will.

Posted by Frank Cox (Member # 6258) on 10-18-2017, 05:35 PM:

Gosh, a movie that long in 70.... you'll need three men and two small boys to shift the cans!

Posted by Stephan Shelley (Member # 8587) on 10-18-2017, 05:59 PM:

Longer than H8? That is what floor staff is for.

Posted by Tyler Purcell (Member # 9213) on 10-18-2017, 07:56 PM:

I'm shocked they'd release it the weekend AFTER Murder on the Orient in 70mm. So that means theaters who aren't running Murder will get Justice League I assume. That's pretty incredible if you think about it, two different 70mm releases at the same time?!!

Posted by Stephan Shelley (Member # 8587) on 10-18-2017, 08:38 PM:

Have not heard that the Grand Lake is getting Murder on the Orient Express but we can run 70mm on more than 1 screen here. 3 of the 4 screens.

Posted by Bill Brandenstein (Member # 7758) on 10-19-2017, 06:48 PM:

The online trailer for "Murder" states what we've heard elsewhere: 70mm "Murder" in NYC and LA only. Sadly.

Posted by Jim Cassedy (Member # 4115) on 10-19-2017, 10:37 PM:

Geez, I hope the visual quality of the feature looks better
than the crappy 70mm trailer they had attached to DUNKIRK.

Posted by Geoff Jones (Member # 3668) on 10-25-2017, 08:36 PM:

Seattle Cinerama will be showing Justice League in 70MM.

Posted by David J Hilsgen (Member # 2614) on 10-26-2017, 11:44 PM:

Emagine Willow Creek in Plymouth,mn Booking confirmed

Posted by Bill Brandenstein (Member # 7758) on 10-30-2017, 07:35 PM:

Both the Arclight Hollywood and Sherman Oaks locations will present JL in 70mm. The Dome will have JL as well, but isn't the 70mm screen.

Which is curious, because the Hollywood location will have Murder on the Orient Express in 70mm at the same time - unless they only run it for a week.

Posted by Bobby Henderson (Member # 840) on 10-30-2017, 09:09 PM:

People who go out of their way to see Justice League in 70mm will be scratching their heads when they see the 1.85:1 aspect ratio. Look for some of the same complaints made with 70mm shows of The Master and Inherent Vice. 1.85:1 70mm was a pretty common thing in the 1980's.

Posted by Tyler Purcell (Member # 9213) on 11-02-2017, 01:57 AM:

I'm still scratching my head on why they shot the movie in 1.85:1.

So they'd either matte 4 perf 35mm or 3 perf 35mm. Either way, they're losing quite a bit of negative space over super 35mm 4 perf anamorphic and all the other DC movies are 2.40:1. To me it really makes no sense to make it 1.85:1.

Posted by Bill Brandenstein (Member # 7758) on 11-02-2017, 09:46 PM:

Only a suspicion, but it may have something to do with Imax being one of the release formats. (Not that it's stopped them from letterboxing in the past.)

Posted by Bobby Henderson (Member # 840) on 11-03-2017, 12:04 AM:

Much of the movie was shot digitally using the Arri Alexa 65 camera system. So that's already a slightly taller frame than 2.39:1 scope. Some portions were shot on 35mm. I don't know what work flows were used in this production, but I do know some movies that have been shot in 6K or 8K in camera were composed loosely so the footage could be cropped to the desired composition in post production.

Regardless of that stuff so many of the premium priced screens and standard priced commercial theater screens are NOT native 'scope in ratio. They're taller and often show 'scope movies un-masked in TV-style letter-box presentation. There's hardly any real, true anamorphic CinemaScope™ in theaters anymore. Today the movie industry's idea of super-widescreen is very much a digital version of 2-perf TechniScope. These days 'scope pretty much sucks unless you have a movie shot in a native widescreen format on film, post-produced entirely on film and presented on film. Such a thing is extremely rare now. Nearly all movie productions are tooling around with glorified TV cameras, all equipped with imagers shaped like the TV screens in our living rooms. The Alexa 65 is a little tiny bit wider and that's pretty much the lone exception.

Posted by Brad Miller (Member # 2) on 11-03-2017, 08:42 AM:

My Dallas sites playing Justice League in 70mm:

LOOK Cinemas
Studio Movie Grill Royal
Studio Movie Grill Arlington

I'm also quite surprised a 1.85 film is being released in 70mm in this day and age, but I too blame the video photography and what people like to call "PLF auditoriums".

Being 1.85 I'm going to have to actually file a 1.85 aperture plate though for each these rooms to properly fit with the masking, as it will look unacceptably odd with slanted pillarbox bars on "scope" masked screens.

Yes actual "masking"!!! Something these "PLF" auditoriums fail to do.

Posted by Mark Lensenmayer (Member # 134) on 11-14-2017, 05:30 PM:

Gateway Film Center in Columbus, OH will be playing Justice League in 70mm.

Posted by David J Hilsgen (Member # 2614) on 11-14-2017, 09:59 PM:

This will be odd, the trailers will be 2.20:1 the feature 1.85 it should be the other way around, at least i have motorized masking, be interesting to see what the audience thinks at the willow creek. i, do a curtain call, so maybe nobody will notice the picture get smaller.

Posted by Brad Miller (Member # 2) on 11-15-2017, 01:59 AM:

Smaller than you realize David. The movie is 1.85 within 2.40 within 2.20 (Yes you read that right.)

Here is a scan of the leader to show you what I mean.

So if this movie is presented using "normal" 2.20 70mm lensing, you will have black on all 4 sides of the image. I predict there will be a lot of customer complaints on this one, as the prints should have been a straight 1.85 within 2.20

For my Dallas area installs I had to setup 3 new lenses and file new aperture plates to properly align this image to the 1.85 masking. They look great, but 70mm presentations will likely vary greatly outside of Texas.

Posted by Steve Guttag (Member # 268) on 11-15-2017, 08:30 AM:

Well everyone has zoom lenses to handle this. RIGHT? [Eek!]

Posted by Sascha F. Roll (Member # 9043) on 11-15-2017, 10:11 AM:

Is J.L. a 2k resolution film-out on 70mm? Seriously?

Posted by Scott Jentsch (Member # 1681) on 11-15-2017, 11:16 AM:

Here's what we have for U.S. locations advertising that they're showing Justice League in 70mm:

Justice League (4 locations) (70mm is mentioned in the notes)

New York
- New Rochelle: Regal New Roc Stadium 18 IMAX & RPX

Ohio
- Columbus: Gateway Film Center

Oregon
- Tigard: Regal Bridgeport Village Stadium 18 & IMAX

Texas
- Houston: Edwards Greenway Grand Palace Stadium 24 & RPX

Justice League in 70MM Film (13 locations)

California
- Hollywood: ArcLight Hollywood
- La Mesa: Reading Cinemas Grossmont with TITAN XC
- Oakland: Grand Lake Theater
- San Diego: ArcLight La Jolla
- Sherman Oaks: ArcLight Sherman Oaks

Illinois
- Chicago: AMC River East 21

Minnesota
- Plymouth: Emagine Willow Creek

New York
- New York City: AMC Loews Lincoln Square 13
- New York City: City Cinemas Cinemas 1 2 and 3

Texas
- Arlington: Studio Movie Grill - Arlington
- Austin: Alamo Drafthouse Cinema - The Ritz
- Dallas: Studio Movie Grill - Dallas / Royal

Washington
- Seattle: Seattle Cinerama Theatre

This information is current as of this morning's first showtimes refresh. More showtimes may roll in, but if your theater isn't listed here, please make sure that 70mm information is being sent to Webedia (one of the two major suppliers of showtimes info):

http://www.bigscreen.com/extranet/submitschedule.php

Posted by Brad Miller (Member # 2) on 11-15-2017, 01:23 PM:

You missed LOOK Cinemas, as noted on the previous page.

Posted by Eric Hooper (Member # 1730) on 11-16-2017, 06:58 AM:

Just wondering if Cinemarks with side masking screens leave the side masking open when projecting 1.85 flat pictures? [evil]

Posted by Scott Jentsch (Member # 1681) on 11-16-2017, 02:31 PM:

quote: Brad Miller
You missed LOOK Cinemas, as noted on the previous page.

Hence my comment about the theaters that are advertising that they are showing the movie in 70MM. I probably should have been more specific in saying that these are the theaters that are providing information to us that they are showing the movie in 70MM.

We will do our part by publicizing it, but theaters have to do their part to make sure that they're providing the information. That said, I'm happy to work with our data provider to get that information, and have done so lots of times in the past in such situations.

They've done a pretty decent job of labeling their various presentations (showtimes page), such as Look&Dine, Atmos, EVO, et al, but for whatever reason, their 70MM shows of Justice League are being combined with the digital presentations.

I'll contact Webedia and find out if there is a way to get their showings tagged correctly.

Do you know what POS they're using?

Posted by Peter Lee (Member # 10122) on 11-24-2017, 01:12 AM:

The AMC Neshaminy in Bensalem, PA outside Philadelphia ia showing Justice League in their Dolby Cinema zoomed in and cropped. I thought it was a mistake and they had forgotten to switch out the lens from the earlier shows of scope pic Coco in the same auditorium but nope, it was intentional. The Dolby Cinema screen has scope dimensions and the manager said they got complaints after every show about how the movie wasn't filling the width of the screen. He decided the "solution" is to crop off the top and bottom of the picture. Unbelievable.

Posted by Geoff Jones (Member # 3668) on 11-24-2017, 08:52 AM:

quote: Peter Lee
The AMC Neshaminy in Bensalem, PA outside Philadelphia ia showing Justice League in their Dolby Cinema zoomed in and cropped. I thought it was a mistake and they had forgotten to switch out the lens from the earlier shows of scope pic Coco in the same auditorium but nope, it was intentional. The Dolby Cinema screen has scope dimensions and the manager said they got complaints after every show about how the movie wasn't filling the width of the screen. He decided the "solution" is to crop off the top and bottom of the picture. Unbelievable.

Ugh. And to think that people are paying a surcharge for that.

I hope you demanded your money back.

Posted by Peter Lee (Member # 10122) on 11-24-2017, 09:06 AM:

I did but it provided no satisfaction. I'd run into previous problems with the Dolby Cinema at this theatre - in fact, the ticket I got for Justice League was "bought" using a pass I received for a show of Thor Ragnarok that was screened with only a single lens because the Christie Dolby Cinema projector had alignment problems. But there's a world of difference between a sub-par screening caused by a technical fault outside the theatre's control and a deliberate choice by the manager to project using the wrong setup and settings. All to avoid complaints from misinformed customers who don't know Justice League is a flat movie or do know but prefer to see the movie zoomed in and cropped so that they don't see exposed screen. Of course, a problem caused entirely by the chains abandoning masking...

Posted by Stephan Shelley (Member # 8587) on 11-24-2017, 08:07 PM:

In addition to the other issues mentioned here has anyone noticed that the pillared image is off center to the left?

Posted by Brad Miller (Member # 2) on 11-24-2017, 08:17 PM:

It's centered. Something is probably slightly off on your setup.

Posted by Stephan Shelley (Member # 8587) on 11-24-2017, 09:59 PM:

I have run it on two different screens and it is the same on both. It only takes a mm on the film to make a noticeable difference. You might not notice it just looking at the film.

Posted by Brad Miller (Member # 2) on 11-24-2017, 10:29 PM:

I'll have to take a caliper to it, but is your 70mm projector off center on the screens?

Posted by Stephan Shelley (Member # 8587) on 11-24-2017, 11:42 PM:

It is in # 1 position for a two projector changeover setup. To the left of center in the #1 position. How is it on the screens at the Dallas theatres?

Posted by Brad Miller (Member # 2) on 11-25-2017, 01:04 AM:

Two of the 70mm projectors are 2 feet off dead center of the room/screen to the left of the digital.

The third 70mm projector is 4 feet off dead center of the room/screen to the right of the digital.

I filed plates and setup lenses specific to the Justice League print for these three auditoriums for proper alignment with the 1.85 masking though. So if indeed the print is printed slightly off center, then adjustments will need to be made for any future 1.85-within-2.40-within-2.20 print if it is centered differently. Hopefully though we will never see another print like this again (or anything 1.85 for that matter).

Posted by Stephan Shelley (Member # 8587) on 11-25-2017, 02:03 AM:

What are you doing about the two full width trailers on the head.

Posted by Brad Miller (Member # 2) on 11-25-2017, 11:47 AM:

We are "letterboxing" the trailers within the 1.85 masking. I feel very strongly that never, never, never should any pre-movie content have a bigger screen size than the feature.

Posted by Bill Brandenstein (Member # 7758) on 11-25-2017, 12:34 PM:

Has anyone given feedback about this stupidity to the distributor? Do they even care?

Posted by Stephan Shelley (Member # 8587) on 11-25-2017, 12:57 PM:

So you are zooming a lens on the 70mm to do this?

Posted by Brad Miller (Member # 2) on 11-25-2017, 02:55 PM:

Yes we can do a lens switch, but it's smoother to run trailers on digital and do an automated changeover to film at the feature.

Posted by Stephan Shelley (Member # 8587) on 11-25-2017, 03:26 PM:

While I agree with you about trailers not being larger than the feature and have purposely run flat digital trailers with 70mm features, I am not sure what Warner's thinks of cutting off the 70mm trailers they put effort and money to print/attach in 70mm. Would have been better if they letterboxed to mach the feature.

Back in the 35 mm blow-up era the was a fair amount of 1:85 70mm. ET comes to mind. At least it was full height. Image being centered was hit and miss and would vary from reel to reel. At least this stays in the same place from reel to reel.

Posted by Brad Miller (Member # 2) on 11-25-2017, 05:00 PM:

It's not my fault the trailers are improperly formatted for the feature, but the fact is we did not "cut them off" as far as the audience and marketing department is concerned, as we made it a point to still exhibit the same trailers to the audience via the digital projector.

Let's look at it a different way. We already bent over backwards to "fix" the mis-formatting of the feature for WB on our 3 presentations. How about a show of hands for any other 70mm screen running this that bothered to get new lenses and file new plates to exactly align with the 1.85 masking just for this one mis-printed feature booked for a mere 10 days? Anyone??? Anyone else out there go to that much trouble to truly provide a proper presentation???

For clarity so there is no misunderstanding, I'm not wishing to start an argument here. I am however pointing out that worrying about the projection format of a preview vs. the bigger picture of the presentation of the feature as well as the presentation as a whole is a bit on the ridiculous side. Besides setting up new lensing and aperture plates, we are using ultrasonic splices, wet gate projection, 6000 watt lamps, etc. I am absolutely positive WB won't be able to find a better presentation of Justice League anywhere else.

Posted by Stephan Shelley (Member # 8587) on 11-25-2017, 05:32 PM:

Wet gate projection. I have heard of wet gate on a printer but how does it work on a projector or are you referring to liquid cooled?

Posted by Brad Miller (Member # 2) on 11-25-2017, 07:22 PM:

Wet gate projection is using FilmGuard on every single pass. Just like wet gate printers which have the film submerged in a liquid, when used in this manner the FilmGuard forms a coating on the film which refracts light and hides most blemishes from projecting. Lots of people use it for cleaning, lubricating, stopping shedding and removal of static, but the magic happens when you use it every single show. Anyone who has used it in this manner knows all too well the various benefits of it, meaning not just a perfectly clean print and the ability to hide print defects, but it improves the image all around as well (projected resolution, color saturation, etc). When used in this manner the image literally becomes BETTER every pass than the very first time a new print straight from the lab is projected.

For example, today's shows look better than yesterday's shows, and yesterday's shows looked better than the day prior's shows. On opening day most theaters presented their highest quality shows and then it slowly got worse from there (just how fast or slow that happens depends on the specific booth, operator, etc). Our prints on the other hand gets better as each day passes.

Over time the coating will evaporate and simply no longer be there, but the print will be in pristine condition. The most common thing I hear from picky projectionists that have tried it is that they truly thought they had a great presentation before, but after seeing the difference realize it wasn't as great as they had thought and then religiously never run without it after that.