Film-Tech Forum ARCHIVE: Problem with takeup on Eiki 16mm Projector

This is topic Problem with takeup on Eiki 16mm Projector in forum Film Handlers' Forum at Film-Tech Forum ARCHIVE.

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Posted by Duane Hillier (Member # 10518) on 07-08-2018, 09:18 PM:

Hi, I have a Eiki 16mm projector and when a 1600' or 2000' reel is being played and taken up on the take up reel once the reel reaches around 200 or 400' it begins to squeak and screech like their is to much weight on the takeup reel. This never happened years ago and this has only occurred recently. The same issue occurs when rewinding it also squeaks, slows down and even stops half way through rewinding a film. I have tried everything lubricated the takeup cork, cleaned the clutch assembly, replaced the belts in arms, taken the whole machine apart and rebuilt it with spare equipment including new power supply, motor etc. This is driving me insane.

Posted by Mark Gulbrandsen (Member # 72) on 07-09-2018, 11:39 AM:

Its probably cheaper and less mind bending just to acquire another Eiki. They are dirt cheap these days... They typically sell for 50 USD here unless its a xenon model...

Mark

Posted by Frank Angel (Member # 248) on 07-09-2018, 03:59 PM:

I was just going to say the same thing, Mark. I have spent hours tinkering with Eikis and Elmos for the last few months and while it is possible to get them to actually function, depending on their condition, there is a lot of jerry-rigging and fudging has to be done plus plenty of frustration -- in most cases it just makes more sense to find a decent used unit and be done with it.

BTW, do you know of a good source for Xenon units? If I can get one that is reasonably priced, it will prevent me from trying to cannibalize a Boxlite video projector's power supply and xenon lamp assembly and try to smash it into an Eiki "lamp house."

Posted by Tony Bandiera Jr (Member # 2365) on 07-09-2018, 04:05 PM:

Mark, if he was in the US that would be a good point..but he's in Australia and I am pretty sure such machines are not only rare there, but also more costly. And shipping a "$50" machine from here would cost well over $100-200 dollars.

Duane, welcome to Film-Tech. Glad to see some new blood around here...

Now, on to the problem at hand...it has been a while since I worked on the Eiki (the University I was at had about 6 operating at one time, all pedestal models).

If memory serves, the takeups were driven by a motor, with the weight of the motor's shaft bearing on the takeup clutch. I do not recall belts being in the equation..this was the pedestal model...

So I have to back up and ask, what type of Eiki are we talking about? A portable model you sit on a table or the pedestal model that sits on the floor?

In the case of the portables, I only had one machine of my own and have not run into the problem you are experiencing.

That said, since it seems you already covered the obvious (belts, clutch, etc.) the only things I can think of are the actual bearings in the takeup shaft assembly, and/or the drive mechanism in the projector body itself.

Is the squealing coming from the takeup arm end or inside the projector?

Does the motor sound like it is straining?

Can you turn the reel by hand and make the noise stop when this is happening?

Are the belts metal or plastic, and are they free of oil and not stretched out?

A picture of the machine would help a lot, use the "Click here to upload an image" link on the reply page and follow the instructions there to put a pic in your post.

Posted by Duane Hillier (Member # 10518) on 07-09-2018, 05:48 PM:

Yes the squealing is coming from the take up side. All belts are rubber and new and replaced with new motor that I know works as came from a working eiki without that issue.

Posted by Scott Norwood (Member # 30) on 07-09-2018, 05:55 PM:

The service manual for that machine is here:

http://www.film-tech.com/warehouse/manuals/EIKINSERVICE.pdf

You need some silicone grease on the cork liner of the takeup mechanism. There is a whole lubrication schedule for these machines.

I should add here, for future reference, that Sanford Camera in Arlington, MA. repairs these machines and does excellent work. They are not cheap (and are probably too far from the original poster), but they put my portable xenon machines into like-new mechanical condition.

Posted by Mark Gulbrandsen (Member # 72) on 07-09-2018, 06:18 PM:

Tony,

Eiki's are workd wide... literally everywhere. In the late 1970's I ran an AV Repair at a school district that had 890 16mm projectors, 2/3 were Eiki's, the rest Kodak Pagent, and we had few problems fixing the Eiki's at the time. Most issues were cam tank related, and Eiki did make a bad run of the phenolic pull down cam and that took a while to convince the Eiki Rep that was an actual problem. I can't remember any machines with take up or rewind issues though. There were probably a few that did. I would still just purchase another projector, or look for an Elmo. Stay away from Hell & Bowell!And try following the lubrication reccomendations. You could use Superlube in place of the reccomended silicon grease. Its actually much better stuff and it's cheap.

Mark

Posted by Mike Croaro (Member # 3123) on 07-09-2018, 06:45 PM:

I'm with Scott Norwood on lubricating the cork spindle. If the cork is dry, it "catches" and causes drag on the drive mechanism.

It is also suggested to always use a plastic take up reel as it puts less weight on the cork spindle.

Mike

Posted by Mark Gulbrandsen (Member # 72) on 07-09-2018, 08:27 PM:

At the school district all we used were metal reels. Plastic would have a life span numbered in just a few days. The Eiki's were all RT and NT models. The metal reels never caused any headache.

Mark

Posted by Duane Hillier (Member # 10518) on 07-09-2018, 09:34 PM:

Done all that, doesn't make a difference if it's a plastic or metal reel. The only thing I haven't done is cleaned the main drive belt closest to the shutter blade. It's super hard to get on and off but that may be slipping so going to wipe with metho and clean the part it goes on as well. I don't know what else to do. I do have another machine but spent so much time restoring this one I don't want to part with it.

Posted by Leo Enticknap (Member # 534) on 07-09-2018, 11:13 PM:

Agreed that the cork clutch liner on the takeup spindle is one of the big weak points of the NT and RT line.

I also found that cleaning out the OEM molybendum grease from the camtank (which will likely have almost solidified and stink like a sewage farm, it's it's still the factory fill) and replacing it with lithium grease reduces a lot of stress on the drive train and makes it run a lot smoother, too.

Posted by Gary A. Hoselton (Member # 3447) on 07-26-2018, 07:46 PM:

Duane, seems about time to put on a mechanics stethoscope, the kind with a rod to place on the mechanics and move about seeking the source of the noise.

Leo, I guess we all have our favorite Eiki camtank lubricant. I use Dow Corning BR2-Plus, extreme pressure bearing grease -30C to 130C, petroleum-based and contains molybdenum (MoS2) and lithium. Recently opened a cam tank at ~700 hours, grease like I installed it with good coating on cam and wobble-plate--I was impressed.

Posted by Duane Hillier (Member # 10518) on 07-28-2018, 11:19 PM:

The other related issue when rewinding a film using the reverse clutch, teeing a 1600' reel it will eventually slow down and even stop before it's finished also creating a loud screech. It's impossible ill eventually throw it and buy a eiki super slot loader.