Film-Tech Forum ARCHIVE: Advice on first 35mm projector

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Posted by David Ferguson (Member # 10588) on 11-20-2018, 04:23 AM:

I'm new to 35mm (I have a few super 8mm projectors) but I recently acquired some 35mm films and I'd like to get into 35mm. I obviously understand that 35mm is quite a step up in terms of equipment, maintenance and cost, and so I was looking for some advice.

Cost is my primary concern, and I've seen this projector on ebay which fits the bill in terms of that, and also extras that it comes with. And after looking at this forum, it seems that Century projectors and Strong lamphouses are reasonably regarded.

One thing I'm not entirely sure about is the film transport. In picture 5 of the auction there is what I presume to be the take-up reel, but I can't quite envision where the supply reel would be. It's probably really obvious, but would one of you be able to explain it to a newbie?

Thanks!

Posted by Phillip Grace (Member # 2262) on 11-20-2018, 06:05 AM:

I think the spindle for the supply reel is mounted on the drive side of the projector. The shot of the rear of the lamphouse shows something sticking out to the left. According to the description, the machine has had a reel to reel long-play/rewind system attached. The threading path would be quite convoluted, but the machine is quite well optioned with dolby digital basement reader as well as analogue. I would expect there is some degree of automation control built in as well. In its traditional form there would have been a spool arm attached to the top of the projector, (you can see the bolts for it) and a take-up arm attached under the sound head. Maximum film capacity with that arrangement is about 6000ft. The arms or magazines should be obtainable if you were to go that way. The only thing that might not be there in the current incarnation is the pulley and guides for the take-up drive belt. Are they offering a rectifier to run the Xenon lamp?

Posted by Peter Foyster (Member # 9599) on 11-20-2018, 08:14 AM:

The description of the items included with the projector does mention the lamp rectifier

Posted by Scott Norwood (Member # 30) on 11-20-2018, 08:31 AM:

That looks like a nice machine from the pictures. It might even hold 12000' reels (which would hold a complete two-hour feature) in its current configuration. If so, you will avoid the need for a second projector or platter/tower transport system.

You will need the parts mentioned above as well as reels, lenses, aperture plates, a rewind table, a splicer, and a sound system. Since you are inexperienced with the format, you will want help from a projectionist or cinema technician to disassemble and move the equipment (which will weigh several hundred pounds). Be sure to remove the lamp (bulb) before moving the lamphouse. Xenon lamps are potentially explosive, which is why the face mask comes with the equipment. The rectifier might require three-phase power. If so, single-phase rectifiers are available if you don't have three-phase power.

The reel shafts pictured look to be 1/2", so you may want to get a set of standard reel arms as well, since a normal 2000' reel has a 5/16" shaft (in the US, at least).

35mm prints come in a number of different aspect ratios. You should plan to get lenses and aperture plates for (at least) four formats: 1.37:1, 1.66:1, 1.85:1, and Cinemascope. There are a few others, but this will cover most films. Sometimes, the same lens can be used (with a different plate) for different formats if you have both top and side masking. A sound system can be as simple as a microphone preamp and powered speaker, or as elaborate as you like. You will need a power supply for the LED reader in the soundhead (this may be included) as well. Special test films and equipment are needed for proper sound system alignment; a cinema technican will have those. There is no "rewind" function on these 35mm machines, so a rewind table is needed. This can range from a simple hand-cranked setup to a motorized device.

Posted by Mark Gulbrandsen (Member # 72) on 11-20-2018, 09:21 AM:

Those are pretty nice projectors as turret projectors go. I prefer the single lens mount version of that same projector but that is also a VERY good price. Stay away fomr the old black wrinkle Simplex's unless you can tolerate oil everywhere... These later Simplex's have very high quality main castings that are powder coated and do not leak.

Mark

Posted by Brad Miller (Member # 2) on 11-20-2018, 09:54 AM:

That's not a Simplex, Mark.

Posted by Mark Gulbrandsen (Member # 72) on 11-20-2018, 08:21 PM:

This https://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/153263626763 is a XXXXXXX Century! That silver hammertone all starts looking the same...

Posted by Lindsay Morris (Member # 1430) on 11-21-2018, 01:19 AM:

What a pristine machine..just wish it was available in Western Australia I would have it in a flash.

The base would carry the feed spool on the LHS (drive side) and it looks like there is an arm in the package with rollers on it so I am guessing that would bolt on where the feed spool normally sits and the rollers guide the film up to a top roller and then across & down into the upper feed sprocket.
The takeup just went straight down to a 12,000 foot spool not unlike the Eprad MUT type of spool with the 1/2" drive spindle and the side lug driving it.

Saw one just like that on one of the Irish Sea ferries from UK to Ireland years ago lying idle as they then just screened DVD's onto a nice big screen with a piddling DVD image in the centre. Utter waste of a nice bit of gear.

Rectifier for lamphouse IS as being in the deal..type TBC so possibly you could get lucky & get a Single Phase unit but generally 3 phase were used as anything much over a 1000W lamp meant that the single phase current was over the 15A socket rating. It seems as though it is being sold by a cinema equip supplier so again you might get lucky and score a single phase switch mode supply which is far more efficient than the older transformer bridge rectifier type.
I still have a Strong single phase unit that I used for running a Lumex lamp with a 1600W xenon in it and that thing sucked 25A @ 1600W. Was glad to purchase a couple of Xebex 3 phase units.
They have infinity variable current control for both the Run and Standby settings.
Even though the single phase Strong was fed via 25A HD plug & socket I had to replace both plugs and sockets twice in the 10 years I used the Strong due to badly cooked pins.

I reckon that set up will outlast you [Smile]

Posted by Steve McAndrew (Member # 8865) on 11-22-2018, 01:47 AM:

Personally, as a fellow collector based in the UK I would avoid that machine, although the lamp house is worth having. Parts for US projectors seem to be almost non existent in the UK, I tried to source some aperture masks for a Simplex and it was almost impossible within the UK. From my experience most collectors in the UK have Kinoton projectors, a few Cinemeccanica and some have older Kalee type machines. There is a Kinoton on eBay at the moment but very overpriced.

As mentioned above, if you do go for the projector that you mention, make sure none of it requires three phase power, unless you have that available and know what you are doing with it!!

Where in the UK are you based, you would be welcome to visit and have a look at my projectors?

Posted by David Ferguson (Member # 10588) on 11-22-2018, 08:14 AM:

Thanks to everyone for all the input and suggestions, it's all very helpful!

quote: Scott Norwood
It might even hold 12000' reels (which would hold a complete two-hour feature) in its current configuration.

Yep, it actually comes with two 12000' reels, so from that I would presume that it can handle them.

quote: Scott Norwood
There is no "rewind" function on these 35mm machines, so a rewind table is needed.

The listing actually says that it does have rewind function, however from the pictures I'm not quite sure I believe that, as the supply reel doesn't look motorised.

quote: Steve McAndrew
Parts for US projectors seem to be almost non existent in the UK

That's a very good point - and from a quick look it seems like aperture plates aren't that easy to find for the Century (or maybe I'm just looking in the wrong places?)

quote: Steve McAndrew
There is a Kinoton on eBay at the moment but very overpriced.

I had indeed seen that, but it's well out of my price range.

quote: Steve McAndrew
Where in the UK are you based, you would be welcome to visit and have a look at my projectors?

I've sent you a PM [Smile]

Posted by Peter Hall (Member # 695) on 11-22-2018, 12:19 PM:

Full disclosure - the advert is ours. We have a garage full of Kinotons and just took this Century in from a collector - was too good to trash and all the rest of our gear (hire, install etc) is Kinoton, thus the need to move the Century on at cost. I have answered lots on ebay but keen to be as open as possible here;
- rectifier - we have a number of single phase traditioal and switchers so take your choice
- long play was (I am told) designed and made in Europe but sold by Strong. The manual is branded Strong for the whole thing and there is a single wiring diagram for all bar the lamphouse (which of course is standard - note 230v)
- threading is from the left, over the top, thru the mech and a large slightly offset take up (so port height is 1400 approx). No more convoluted than a platter but yes, you need to rewind (arms and rollers included - the unit is being sold exactly as it came out)
- Will supply a rectifier, couple of spools (we believe it takes 5000m but have 4000m) and a split or plate etc
- I cannot deny the finish on the base is poor compared to the mech and lamphouse !
- Parts arent that big a nightmare. We have spare super lumexes, rectifiers and film handling bits plus a thousand lenses - Century parts are still available by at least one other UK outlet
- I agree that the Kinoton with the horrid 500w lamphouse is a rip off - I will happily take a mere £3000 today for the Century and will throw on a trailer or two.. Make it £3500 and you can have a CP500 with a remote control