Film-Tech Forum ARCHIVE: Westrex 7000 to be placed on rails

This is topic Westrex 7000 to be placed on rails - Recommendations? in forum Film Handlers' Forum at Film-Tech Forum ARCHIVE.

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Posted by Dan Judge (Member # 8175) on 01-16-2019, 10:56 AM:

In order to get our DCP in a fixed position (at the moment it is on wheels!) I need to get one of our 35mm projectors placed on a rail system (there is one either side of the DCP projector). Ideally, the rails would have a lower profile as possible.

Any recommended linear rails systems?

Posted by Pete Naples (Member # 761) on 01-16-2019, 03:05 PM:

F. Powell & Co offer systems like that. Also Kinoto Digital Solutions.

Not cheap though. Is it really worth spending ££££ on?

Posted by Dan Judge (Member # 8175) on 01-17-2019, 04:51 AM:

Cheers Pete. It is possible to get all the projectors in the space, side by side and operational but the left 35mm projector would have its right side sandwiched next to the DCP. So that is where the rails come in.

Posted by Tony Bandiera Jr (Member # 2365) on 01-17-2019, 11:24 AM:

IMHO it would be better to set up the DC projector as moveable (and a LOT less costly) and it would be an easier add-on since yours is already on wheels.

Simply install locating pins on at least three corners of the DC base. Drill holes in the floor once it is aimed correctly, and attach the pins (you can use the gate latch style of sliding pins) to the base.

Roll the projector in place, drop the pins into the holes and you will get perfect alignment every time.

Posted by Phillip Grace (Member # 2262) on 01-17-2019, 04:35 PM:

I've had to give some thought to the same issue. We have enough space for three machines with room for the operator beside them, but need to accommodate four, and there is also some competition for the centre line to take into account. (Digital wins over 70mm .Because of the great precision which can be achieved aligning the DCP projector to the screen it seemed to be better to have it fixed in position, and arrange for a film projector to move instead. There was also the assumption that a film projector would be more rugged than our D-Cinema machine, and more tolerant to movement. As yet there has been no need to commit.

Ideally all the equipment would be fixed in position and immediately available, which led to some ideas about arranging the machines one above another, or staggered sideways to keep them as close as possible to centre.

At one stage we had a ceiling mounted video projector in the bio-box, but bringing it down for service access was a nightmare so that is something we wont repeat. Everything will stand on the floor one way or another.

Posted by Dan Judge (Member # 8175) on 01-18-2019, 03:35 AM:

Cheers for the responses.

Tony - So, that is my situation at the moment. The DCP is on wheels and has pins but i am trying to move forward and have the DCP fixed as it will be used the most, and hopefully, eventually, will be used for grading and more alternative content. So it makes sense having it central and in a fixed position.

Phillip - Sounds like exactly the same issue. The 35mms are used much less at the moment and this will likely reduce as time goes on. The hope is to use the Sony 4K for grading - So central and as accurate as possible is a must.

Is there a particualar type of rail that you guys have been looking at?

https://gsfslides.com/4080-lgb032-linear-rail-lgb32-precision-hardened-compact-raceways/

?

*update - just seen this - "The LGB32 Rail with carrier fitted has a height of 32mm and a width of 28.8mm."

[Big Grin]

Posted by Phillip Grace (Member # 2262) on 01-19-2019, 05:34 PM:

Dan - I have not had to consider choice of tracks so far. Obviously the flattest profile available would be best if they have to be laid on top of the floor. Precision side guides would be a big plus. Some provision for accurately leveling the track when it is installed would also be important.
A track system would probably imply that a straight run is available from the operating position to the storage position. In our case we would most likely have to run the machines diagonally back from their operating position, with a set of tracks in a vee configuration - one pair of rails for each machine.
The required speed of access to any given machine would be the deciding factor for me.
If for example you had to move the 35mm projector to thread it, then move it into position to project the next reel an so on, a precision track would be the only way to set it up - working "blind" so to speak. There's no reason why this couldn't be made to work reliably if all the wiring and exhaust flue can remain connected as well.
I have had some success with a 16mm projector and rectifier mounted on a wheeled trolley without locating pins. For several reasons I could not use pins, and instead used targets drawn on the projection room floor to line up the leveling feet under the trolley. Only a minute or two of screen time was necessary to check alignment focus and sound, but that time had to be available. A routine of counting the turns on adjustment screws etc was enough to preset the thing quite near the right spot across three different screens in a multiplex. Scheduling forced me to do it "blind" on a couple of occasions but I got away with it, with a bit of a nudge to get rid of a furry edge. A well considered set of targets or even a docking system for the trolley should make for good repeatability.

Posted by Steve McAndrew (Member # 8865) on 01-20-2019, 11:05 AM:

A little while ago I hired some equipment to the National Theatre in London for a production called 'The Flick', they mounted the projector on rails as it had to be moved out of the way during the performance. I am not sure exactly what they used but I suspect it may have been something like sliding gate tracks.

I am actually thinking of doing something similar in my home cinema and have been looking at this website.
https://www.metalines.com/en/454-ground-track

The fact the track is V shaped I would imagine positioning will be fairly accurate.

Posted by Stephen Furley (Member # 1277) on 01-20-2019, 01:42 PM:

We put one of the 35 mm machines and the digital on rails last year. the left 35 mm is fixed, the right one is on rails, normally right next to the left one, at the far left of the rails and the digitalis almost perfectly aligned with the screen. to use 35 mm the digital is moved to the far right of the rails, and the second 35 mm is moved into position close to where the digital was. It takes about two minutes to change from one to the other. The rails are 3 metres long.

The rails mount on the surface of the floor, so no chasing of the concrete is needed, bur the surface of the rails slopes up and down, so it would be difficult to trip over them. The top of the rails is probably about 15 mm above the floor, and the top of the platforms on which the projectors stand probably about 75 mm.

I can send a picture if you're interested.

The company just supplied the rails and platforns; we installed them ourselves.

Posted by Dan Judge (Member # 8175) on 01-22-2019, 03:10 AM:

Thanks for the responses. Does anyone know the approximate weight of the Westrex 7000 or your average 35mm projector?

250kg?

Posted by Steve McAndrew (Member # 8865) on 01-22-2019, 09:26 AM:

I weighed a Kinoton FP30 once, think it was about 170kg (without lamp house)

Posted by Jim Cassedy (Member # 4115) on 01-22-2019, 09:41 AM:

Steve's answer is pretty accurate.
I had to temporarily move an FP-30D recently, & according to the manual,
the un-crated weight is 140kg. (Or appx 308.6lbs, for people like me who
need to keep a metric calculator handy) [Roll Eyes]

Posted by Dan Judge (Member # 8175) on 01-24-2019, 01:50 AM:

Right.. I think these are the rails i'm going for.

https://uk.rs-online.com/web/p/linear-guides-guide-blocks-carriages/3113698/

https://uk.rs-online.com/web/p/linear-guides-rails/3113761/

Just over £400 in all for four carriages and two 1000m rails.

Posted by Tony Bandiera Jr (Member # 2365) on 01-24-2019, 11:00 AM:

Those are some nice rails and carriages, not too bad on the price either.

On first glance, I was questioning the ability to carry the weight (it doesn't help that the give the specs in "N" and "Nm" rather than kilograms) and the idea of the polymer wear glides. I would imagine that, over time, the carriages will wear, and possibly unevenly (since most projectors don't have the same amount of weight bearing down on all four corners.) That could pose alignment issues.

But I guess that, depending on how many times a day/month/year it is moved, it wouldn't really matter as it would take a very long time for appreciable wear to occur. (I wouldn't really want to use this system on a setup where it has to be moved many times a day though.)

One theatre I serviced years ago wanted to have the surround speakers on some sort of lifts to hide them behind a 1/2 height perimeter wall when the films where't running. Back then I did eventually design and test a system that would do the job, but the linear bearing system available back then was very expensive, and the support structures had to be precisely made out of aluminum plate, so the cost per lift was way out of line.

With this system I can envision a very simple design, even allowing multiple speakers to be lifted with one motor and a simple cable drive.

Posted by Dan Judge (Member # 8175) on 01-25-2019, 05:01 AM:

1000Kg Y and 500kg Z apparently! I was surprised at this too.. I am dubious but on paper they seem to tick all the boxes.

Typically, the projector will be moved around four times a year..

Posted by Gary A. Hoselton (Member # 3447) on 01-28-2019, 10:14 PM:

I have three pedestal projectors, two 35mm Simplex XL and one 16mm Eiki EX6000, on platforms which roll on two tracks; this system made by Dan Eichman in Martinez, California, and can contact Dan thru Sam Chavez. The tracks are flat steel bar with narrow aluminum bar down the middle, 5/16 inch total thickness (1/8” lost in floor tile thickness so 3/16” sticking up, not much of a trip hazard), and the platforms add 2 1/2 inches of height. Each platform has a pin which is dropped into a hole drilled in track to position platform; for 35mm I drilled four holes for each projector, for flat films, 2.35, 2.55, and 2.66, because picture is in slightly different locations on film and I have short 35’ throw.
Platform top rotates about a pivot in middle, so can correct rare slight projector misalignment during show. I placed tracks parallel to front wall of booth. I have Strong Super LumeX power supply on platform alongside projector, with power and control cables to connectors in Wiremold on front wall, and signal cables to sound rack paralleling sound-absorbing flexible duct from lamphouse to sucking vent fans mounted on outside wall. I move individual projectors about five feet along 12 feet of track, but could move infinite distance if have enough cable and vent duct (tho Dolby digital cable limited to 30 feet). All has been working fine for about ten years now.

Posted by Dan Judge (Member # 8175) on 06-17-2019, 10:36 AM:

Just to follow up...

https://drive.google.com/file/d/1-0uZcaNW0lEFkqouLQhz0pFnlvuSnszV/view?usp=sharing

So the rails do the job, especially when the rails are greased! To move, it is quite easy but not as easy i would imaging a ball bearing system would offer. For the amount it needs to be moved, it is fine and there is no drift once in position. I think i will se a cople of mini clams to keep it in position.