This is topic Longest-tenured 35mm projector? in forum Film Handlers' Forum at Film-Tech Forum ARCHIVE.


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Posted by Larry Blake (Member # 1507) on 10-13-2019, 04:31 PM:
 
Hello everyone:

I work in post-production film sound, and also write about film technology, too.

I’m writing a book about archiving motion pictures, and in it I’m looking over the broad technological history of shooting, post-production, and projection.

Given 35mm’s never-to-be-matched longevity status—it’s been around since 1889 and was formally standardized in 1909—a large number of projectors have been around for decades. With this in mind, I have a question:

What is “longest-tenured” 35mm projector that you personally know of? By this I mean a specific projector (definitely not broadly speaking, as in a projector model), and its length of service in booth(s). It might be one from the Thirties that you know of lasted until the Nineties. Or even one that is still in operation today!

Of course, when I say “personally know of,” I mean that this should be as “first-hand,” non-apocryphal as possible. Clearly, as old as some of us here (me included!) are, not many started work before 1960, and I feel certain that many candidates will be in the large number of projectors worldwide “born” before any of us first walked in a booth. Thus my saying “as first-hand as possible”!

Any contenders or contributions you might have will be appreciated.

Thanks in advance.

Larry Blake
 

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Posted by Sam D. Chavez (Member # 1841) on 10-13-2019, 07:50 PM:
 
Wow, Larry Blake!

I can't think of anything non-apocryphal and I started in 1963.

UC on University Ave. in Berkeley had the same operator for 42 years. Working backward Leon Friedman retired in the early '70's. Afaik, he ran the same Simplex E7's the whole time, so that would put it early 1930's. I'm sure this could be narrowed down a bit but there must be many identical stories as everyone has their own Cinema Paradiso story.

It would be helpful if someone would cite the years various models of projectors came into use.
 

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Posted by Mark Gulbrandsen (Member # 72) on 10-13-2019, 08:10 PM:
 
I had Super Simplex's and E-7's that I serviced for going on 20 years in WY. and MT. They ran up until Digital conversions were done. One of the Super Simplex's remains installed to this day in Powell, WY.

Mark
 

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Posted by Carsten Kurz (Member # 5396) on 10-13-2019, 08:14 PM:
 
The Ernemann IX installed into our cinema in 1957 was operated daily until 2013, and is still installed in the same place and fully functional, I run it for upkeep and demonstrations every couple of weeks.
Admitted, the lamp house was modified from carbon to xenon in the 90s, but that has nothing to do with the mechanism. As far as I know, there has never been a major repair or part change on that machine.
I know a couple of Ernemann VII and VIII that are still in operation. Don't know their build-date, though.
 

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Posted by Steve Guttag (Member # 268) on 10-13-2019, 09:42 PM:
 
Larry,

This is going to be in the "impossible" category. Cinema history, as you know, came in waves (particularly once sound came in as the first real wave after the long silent build up).

So projectors like the Super Simplex and the Simplex Standard or the Century Kaplan were all going to go in around the same time so it would be a matter of finding when one of those came out for one of the many reasons (building closed, technology forced the change, particularly in the widescreen era)...that sort of thing.

Trying to find when one of those early projectors was installed versus when it was retired (and to know that there was never a head swap), is going to be tough to impossible. I have no doubt that our counterparts from all over the world will have similar stories about their early "talkie" projectors.

You almost need to find the oldest continuously operating theatre (at least up until 2010 or so) and then see if they still had their original projector(s) in service. Good luck.
 

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Posted by Fredrik Sandstrom (Member # 8171) on 10-14-2019, 07:44 AM:
 
I know a pair of Victoria VR's installed in 1956 and used in that location until late 2014, still with carbon arc. I was the last projectionist to work with them. The machines are still in place but the venue is now used for live theatre.
 

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Posted by Martin McCaffery (Member # 37) on 10-14-2019, 08:22 AM:
 
I heard once, and have nothing to backing it up, that the average life span of a theatre is 15 years. It was not uncommon to move projectors from one theatre to another, thus extending the longevity of the projector beyond the theatre.

I'm going to have to agree that this is an impossible mission. I'd bet it would be a mom and pop theatre in the middle of no where that didn't keep records and probably handed it down to the kids who ran it for awhile and closed it.

Which then brings us to, what if the theatre was closed for some time and then reopened using the same projectors? Does the down time count towards their longevity?

Anyway, I'm sure this will generate some interesting stories.
 

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Posted by Larry Blake (Member # 1507) on 10-14-2019, 08:29 AM:
 
Thanks, everyone! As expected, a few are in the half-century regions.

Sam, long time no see: early Nineties??
 

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Posted by Marcel Birgelen (Member # 6801) on 10-14-2019, 08:54 AM:
 
I think it will be a hard case to prove, but expect a lot of anecdotal information though.

A lot of 35mm gear has been shifted around from one theater to another, so many theaters were operating on gear that has been running somewhere else.

In one, small town theater I worked in the mid-90s, almost all the projection equipment came from somewhere else. Although you could trace the build-date of most of those machines, it doesn't really tell you anything about its use, it could've been in storage for a decade, for example.

And although 35mm had a spectacular run for both film and still photography (and still hasn't entirely vanished), it's a bit hard to claim it's the same thing as 120 years back. The form factor itself might have remained the same, but almost everything else around it has seen some changes somewhere in the last 120 years.
 

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Posted by Steve Guttag (Member # 268) on 10-14-2019, 11:03 AM:
 
Projectors from the widescreen era (50s) are another story...getting projectors in the 50+ year category isn't too uncommon. Any Norelco AA2 if the theatre was operating 50 years after the install probably still had them. I don't recall any Simplex XL/35s coming out once installed (except for 70mm) if the theatre was still operating and the same goes for the Century family starting with the "C".
 

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Posted by Larry Blake (Member # 1507) on 10-14-2019, 11:28 AM:
 
Hi Steve:

Yes, it occurred to me that while saying "35mm" one could (realistically, possibly) go back to the late Twenties, there might be gold in them thar hills to include DP70/AAII 35/70's from 1955 on.

Thomas Hauerslev would be the person here, given his research into serial numbers.
https://www.in70mm.com/dp70/numbers/index.htm

Maybe some of the dozen or so of the AAIIs that are either in the Academy's theaters (Dunn and Goldwyn) or in their "spare parts" collection go back to the beginning. I wonder where the AAIIs that were at Todd-AO on Seward St. ended up.

And, to the question that many have had, I think it's fair to include a projector that might have gone out of service, but was then re-installed in a theater later on. It would be only fair to include a projector manufactured in 1930 that was still running in 1995, even if it went "dark" for some time.
 

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Posted by Jesse Crooks (Member # 9389) on 10-14-2019, 01:13 PM:
 
The Mahoning Drive-in in Lehighton, PA, is still running the E7s they installed when they opened in 1948.
 

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Posted by Sam D. Chavez (Member # 1841) on 10-14-2019, 01:29 PM:
 
The UC Berkeley certainly holds up as it was a silent era theatre, and then ran continuously thru at least the early 90's before closing. It's now a live theatre for the last few years. There a couple of books by Jack Tillmany that provide some clues. Gary Meyer would also be a great source of information as he ran this location for Landmark for some time.

As to your question the last time we met, I was in New Orelans with Ioan Allen and Lonny Jennings to do the first road course of SR.D. I recall the fine time we had with you as our host. We have bumped into each other a few times since in LA and/or Vegas. Please don't tell me my memory is better than yours. You have been a little busy.
 

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Posted by Scott Norwood (Member # 30) on 10-14-2019, 03:49 PM:
 
Many (most?) cinemas seem to have done major projection equipment upgrades when they converted to Cinemascope and other widescreen formats in the 1950s. Even today, it is still fairly common to see 1950s-vintage equipment installed and running in older cinemas, but it is fairly rare to find anything from the 1940s or earlier. I'm not sure why Cinemascope would require new projectors, but lots of theatre owners seem to have thought that it did, even if they did not spring for stereophonic sound at that time.

Depending upon how you define "projector," the oldest equipment that I know of that was in continuous use is at a cinema that has Brenkert Enarc lamps and Western Electric soundheads. Those were in daily use from 1938 through 2013, and are still used on an occasional basis. They originally had some Simplex heads installed, but got Century Cs in the 1950s (which are also still there).

I also know of a seasonal cinema that had Kaplan heads (Standard Simplex clones) on Western Electric soundheads in use from the 1940s through 2006, when the cinema closed.
 

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Posted by Steve Guttag (Member # 268) on 10-14-2019, 04:01 PM:
 
The new heads of the 1950s (and the XL was coming in the last 40s) were much easier to deal with the shorter lenses needed for CinemaScope, not to mention the CinemaScope adapters that necessitated removing the front shutter on older heads. The machines from the 50s typically were also more efficient with light, particularly if a projector had to lose its front shutter, the remaining shutter would need to be larger to avoid ghosting. Ever try to use a short lens in a Super or Brenkert? You could vignette the picture before it ever leaves the projector!

The Simplex XL and 4-track magnetic with CinemaScope seemed to come out together (including the sound systems from Simplex) so you are going to get a CinemaScope package and none of that leaky old stuff that might have ferrous parts in there to erase the magnetic tracks...the list would go on, if you think about it.
 

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Posted by Rick Raskin (Member # 1561) on 10-14-2019, 05:26 PM:
 
Doesn't the Lowes Jersey have a Super Simplex with the Vitaphone disk? Although not original to that booth, I believe it is still in service.

I recall running many supers back in the day that had the hole to insert the hand crank. Unfortunately those theaters are long gone.
 

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Posted by Tony Bandiera Jr (Member # 2365) on 10-14-2019, 07:17 PM:
 
Avalon Theatre, Catalina Island, California.

Pair of Brenkerts with Brenkert Carbon Arcs and a motor-generator set still in use for silent and nitrate film festivals as of around 2002 (my last visit there). Originally installed in 1929.

cinematreasures Page

Here's a pic I took around 2000:



The Xetron console hold a Century Projector and soundhead fed by a Numade "Neurotic" platter. They ran the daily features off that setup.

Still running as of the date of this post, I would guess that the regular features are digital projection by now.

Showtimes (dot com) Listing

I miss servicing that theatre, always had a great trip to the island and made a day of it with the old IATSE president.

Remember (somewhat fondly) having to replace the original booth exhaust fan motor when it burned out. Nasty smell that was on my hands and clothes for days, was an old-school setup with the huge leather drive belt. Had to fabricate a plate to adapt a NEMA motor to the original mount.
 

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Posted by Leo Enticknap (Member # 534) on 10-14-2019, 08:51 PM:
 
When I was on Catalina a couple of weeks ago, I noticed that they were playing It - Chapter 2. I'm not aware of any 35mm prints having been made of it, so I'm guessing that they must have put digital in.

Apart from the New Bev, are there any movie theaters in the USA, still operating a full schedule (as in, open to the public seven evenings a week), that play exclusively 35mm?
 

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Posted by Martin McCaffery (Member # 37) on 10-14-2019, 10:50 PM:
 
Rick, I probably ran many of the same theatres in the DC area. I never thought about it at the time, but I wonder now how a theatre like the Shirley Duke had Super Simplexes (on platters, no less). The theatre was built in 1971-- where did the Supers come from? They had to be nearly 40 years old in '71 (had the crankshaft holes), and the theater was still open in the late 90's. They did have spare heads and rotated them on a somewhat regular basis.
 

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Posted by Mark Gulbrandsen (Member # 72) on 10-15-2019, 08:03 AM:
 
All the Supers and E-7's I serviced ran off platters... close to a dozen locations! If you oil them they'll run forever. The booth floor never rusts either...

Mark
 

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Posted by Martin McCaffery (Member # 37) on 10-15-2019, 08:12 AM:
 
At the Shirley Duke the oil dripped directly onto the film.
They ran Misty Beethoven there for years. Every now and then they would have to get a new print because there was so much oil the splices wouldn't hold anymore.
 

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Posted by Mark Gulbrandsen (Member # 72) on 10-16-2019, 03:43 PM:
 

quote: Martin McCaffery

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At the Shirley Duke the oil dripped directly onto the film.

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Shirley you can't be serious!

That had to be said...
 

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Posted by Larry Blake (Member # 1507) on 10-16-2019, 04:20 PM:
 
Hi Mark:

My primary claim to fame, when I finally shed my mortal coil, is that I was a passenger on Airplane!, and am the "upside-down man".

Let me know if you're like a signed photo.

Larry
 

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Posted by Stephan Shelley (Member # 8587) on 10-16-2019, 06:04 PM:
 
The Bridge theatre used its originally installed super simplex projectors from 1931 till a platter was installed in the 90's.
 

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Posted by Leo Enticknap (Member # 534) on 10-16-2019, 08:56 PM:
 

quote: Larry Blake

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My primary claim to fame, when I finally shed my mortal coil, is that I was a passenger on Airplane!, and am the "upside-down man".

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quote: Rick Raskin

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Doesn't the Lowes Jersey have a Super Simplex with the Vitaphone disk? Although not original to that booth, I believe it is still in service.

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Actually, the Loews Jersey projector that has both the Vitaphone platter and a Western Electric sound gate is a Simplex Standard with the shutter in front of the lens.

This projector was fully working with disc & optical sound, but was never used for regular screenings. For regular screenings they use a pair of Kinoton FP20's with Ashcraft SuperCorlite carbon arc lamp houses. The Vitaphone projector is still there but was disconnected and pushed to the side a few years ago to free up the port hole for another project.


 

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