Film-Tech Forum ARCHIVE: 35 mm vertical projection

This is topic 35 mm vertical projection in forum Film Handlers' Forum at Film-Tech Forum ARCHIVE.

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Posted by Anhtu Vu (Member # 7689) on 11-13-2019, 01:32 PM:

How can i project a 35 mm film vertically ?

Posted by Frank Cox (Member # 6258) on 11-13-2019, 02:20 PM:

You'll probably need some kind of a mirror arrangement. I don't think ordinary 35mm projectors would operate properly on a vertical plane. The oil wouldn't get to where it's needed, for one thing.

Posted by Helmut Maripuu (Member # 2281) on 11-13-2019, 04:20 PM:

Century Vista Vision?
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=oBKFQKUYRAk

Posted by Scott Norwood (Member # 30) on 11-13-2019, 05:47 PM:

If you just want a vertical image, that has been done by using an anamorphic lens so that it stretches the picture vertically, rather than horizontally. I am not sure how one would mount an anamorphic lens that way on a camera, though.

There is probably also a way to do this with prisms.

Or is this for projecting stuff that was shot vertically on a cell phone?

Posted by Jim Cassedy (Member # 4115) on 11-13-2019, 06:00 PM:

Well, not quite vertical, but. . . .

Posted by Marcel Birgelen (Member # 6801) on 11-13-2019, 06:23 PM:

If you just want to rotate the image by 90 degrees, then you can do that using two mirrors, each at a 45 degree angle. The first redirects the light up or down and the other one to the left or right. You also need to put the projector at a 90 degree angle towards the screen, or you need another mirror.

quote: Frank Cox
You'll probably need some kind of a mirror arrangement. I don't think ordinary 35mm projectors would operate properly on a vertical plane. The oil wouldn't get to where it's needed, for one thing.

It's a bit difficult to do this with 35mm projectors, because they are rather bulky, but it would be entirely doable with some 16mm projectors.

Posted by Mark Lensenmayer (Member # 134) on 11-13-2019, 06:53 PM:

I believe the picture posted by Jim Cassedy is the Jam Handy projector used for the Chevy Show in the '60's. Projectionist sat on floor and projected on to an umbrella shaped screen. I saw it at the State Fair.

Posted by Mark Gulbrandsen (Member # 72) on 11-13-2019, 08:09 PM:

Chicago Science and Industry museum used to have two exhibits that used large vertical screens and Simplex-X-L's that were converted to run 16mm. I used to service these exhibits, but sadly I never took any pictures. The 16mm film was to get around the need for a union operator. The film ran from a loop cabinet.

Mark

Posted by Jim Cassedy (Member # 4115) on 11-14-2019, 07:55 AM:

quote: Mark Lensenmayer
I believe the picture posted by Jim Cassedy is the Jam
Handy projector used for the Chevy Show in the '60's.

Yep- - that's it!
Mark wins this month's "guess the projector" prize [thumbsup]

Posted by Gordon McLeod (Member # 33) on 11-14-2019, 10:21 AM:

At expo 67 THE NFB had a show called Labyrinth that is one section had two 70mm images projected vertically with a third projected onto the floor and the audience stood on gantry's on each side. It was done with Zeis/Prevost P70 projectors

Posted by Mark Gulbrandsen (Member # 72) on 11-14-2019, 12:10 PM:

quote: Mark Lensenmayer
I believe the picture posted by Jim Cassedy is the Jam
Handy projector used for the Chevy Show in the '60's.

I had the 1956 film that played on that projector! It was a half dome system.

Mark

Posted by Scott Norwood (Member # 30) on 11-14-2019, 01:56 PM:

Thinking more about the vertical anamorphic thing: A PL mount lens can be mounted in a camera with a 90-degree rotation, so that should be do-able on both the camera side and the projector side. It would not work with a bayonet-mount lens, but I'm not sure if there is such a thing as a bayonet-mount anamorphic lens.

Another possibility would be the 6-perf Cinerama format. If you could find the equipment, a single projector would give a vertical image. I'm not sure how you would shoot this format with anything other than a Cinerama camera with film loaded in only one of the positions, though. Also, this format was never designed for sound-on-film, which might be a problem.

I like the dome projector thing. My first thought that it was for a planetariuim show, though I've never seen such a thing done with 35mm film--only with Zeiss star projectors and 35mm slides (or, more recently, "full dome" video projection).

Posted by Anhtu Vu (Member # 7689) on 11-14-2019, 03:18 PM:

Scott...The image is scope and according to the artist, the installation has been shown before. I just can't seem to find the tech who did it.

Do you know how i can adapt a scope lens for vertical projection on the Simplex 35mm ?

Posted by Scott Norwood (Member # 30) on 11-14-2019, 03:46 PM:

In that case, just remove the lens bushing from the projector, loosen the lens bushing screw(s), and rotate the lens 90-degrees. Then, tighten the screws (but not too much, lest you crack the lens). Most likely, you will need to actually remove the backup lens and attach the anamorphic to a longer one, assuming that you do not have a square screen.

Posted by Phillip Grace (Member # 2262) on 11-14-2019, 06:10 PM:

Anhtu Vu. Hello.

Is the artist Tacita Dean? Her production "Film" was exhibited at the Tate Modern in London. In this case, the photographic system is a little unusual. The camera has a Cinemascope aperture and works upright. Only the anamorphic lens is turned 90 degrees which produces a 2x vertical squeeze, (instead of the usual horizontal) on conventional 4-perf film. The resulting prints are on 35mm 4-perf film which runs in a normal upright projector. The image on the film is standard sound width (0.825") and uses the full frame height, (approx 0.715")with a vertical squeeze of 2x. Unsqueezing for projection requires a conventional 2x Anamorphic lens rotated 90 degrees from normal. The projected image aspect ratio can be calculated from the dimensions above, and is something like 1:1.73. The film is projected without sound. If this is to be a gallery installation you also need to consider the running time of the film, and what type of spooling or looping system is available.
There is also a French organization "Vertical Cinema" who work with a vertical anamorphic image. In their case they just tip conventional equipment on its side. For projection they use a modified Kinoton E series projector. The mechanism runs quite well laying on its side, but the xenon lamphouse has to remain upright. Projected image aspect ratio is something like 1:2.39 . They tour with their own equipment, and their programs are presented as performances, so conventional film spooling is adequate. The films include a soundtrack.

Hope this helps.