quote: Justin Hamaker

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More than anything it's interesting to see how digital has changed the way we manage our show times

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That's what delayed interlocking was for!
 

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Posted by Bobby Henderson (Member # 840) on 11-29-2019, 07:42 PM:
 
Interlocking could be pretty cool. I liked the demo video here on this web site. Those old Flash-based videos need to be converted to a format that can play on modern browsers and mobile devices.

The old Carmike 8 in my town didn't interlock very often. They would do it with a few opening night releases of big event movies. The theater would receive 1 or 2 prints of the big movie. But the screen count would double via interlocking, usually between the two THX houses and the pair of auditoriums flanking them to the left and right. Since only one set of DTS discs shipped with a print I made dupes of the discs so all shows would at least have DTS. One print, two sets of discs.
 

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Posted by Brad Miller (Member # 2) on 11-29-2019, 07:51 PM:
 
Bobby, that is finally in the works.

I think Justin should show his staff this video of one of my platter array setups.
 

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Posted by Justin Hamaker (Member # 2165) on 11-29-2019, 07:57 PM:
 
I interlocked 3 screens a couple of times for midnight premieres of Twilight movies. And I think I did a 2 screen interlock one time to add seats for a showing that sold out very early. I know 3 screens is amateur hour for Brad, but I was pretty impressed with myself for making it work. I can't even imagine the delayed interlock, but we also didn't have the equipment to "fly" the film overhead.

quote:

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That's what delayed interlocking was for!

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Unfortunately it wouldn't work for adding a 4th session of a really long movie. This is how the conversations came up today at work. We were talking about how we used to only be able to get 3 shows a day when the movie approached 3 hours.
 

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Posted by Marcel Birgelen (Member # 6801) on 11-29-2019, 08:16 PM:
 
I still want to see a functioning interlocking system between two separate cinemas, using film-over-utility-poles.
 

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Posted by Bobby Henderson (Member # 840) on 11-30-2019, 12:35 PM:
 
It would be tricky to bird-proof that.

 

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Posted by Buck Wilson (Member # 5885) on 12-01-2019, 04:45 PM:
 

quote: Brad Miller

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I think Justin should show his staff this video of one of my platter array setups.

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quote: Bobby Henderson

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It would be tricky to bird-proof that.

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A good case for FilmGuard+, with pigeon repellent.

It's somehow a bit sad that those days are pretty much over. When was the last time a theater has run an interlocked film? Digital simply doesn't have the same magic as film has, probably, because we all have "digital" at home already...

PS: What's the emergency procedure in a 16-projector interlock when one projector craps out? Head for the main switchboard and pull the biggest switch in it? Or simply close all the booth doors and run for it?
 

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Posted by Brad Miller (Member # 2) on 12-01-2019, 07:54 PM:
 
Emergency procedure? That's just silly. That was real honest to goodness FILM equipment. You know...gears, belts, etc. It's not like this flaky digital gear designed to fail and over-complicated with all kinds of security checks (aka failure points).

Buck, yes I always wired the overhead lighting in, along with automating the auditorium janitor lighting after each show ends (so the kiddos downstairs can't flip it on until the credits are DONE) and so forth.
 

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Posted by Buck Wilson (Member # 5885) on 12-02-2019, 05:41 AM:
 
BRILLIANT!!
 

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Posted by Sascha F. Roll (Member # 9043) on 12-02-2019, 06:43 AM:
 
At the venue I worked back then we could interlock all 8 screens, although the maximum we ever did for an official screening was 4 screens.
I shot a video of the 2 screen interlock at said venue in 2007 while screening the Mr Bean movie. BTW I didn't lace up the projectors, terrible upper loop size.

Link to YouTube, 2 screen Interlock with Ernemann 14
 

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Posted by Jarod Reddig (Member # 6363) on 12-03-2019, 08:59 PM:
 
Cool Vid Sasha.
 

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Posted by Sean McKinnon (Member # 612) on 12-04-2019, 12:14 PM:
 
Sasha,

Are the platers by Erneman? They look a lot like the Big Sky platters which would make since because Big Sky I think imported (or at least sold) Erneman in the US
 

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Posted by Sascha F. Roll (Member # 9043) on 12-04-2019, 03:49 PM:
 
Sean,

in fact those are Big Sky platters - CineProject (the german distributor of Ernemann) installed those at this venue when we opened in October 2006. The whole setup with the E14 (a very basic, stripped-down E15 without frictions) and the Big Sky platters was an offer for "cost sensitive" cinema owners back then, not wanting to spend too much money on film technology when DCI was already there.

We were not very happy with those platters, by the way...








 

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Posted by Sean McKinnon (Member # 612) on 12-05-2019, 06:54 AM:
 
I remember when those platters first came out the gradient pattern on the feed plate was implemented by just putting a sticker with it on the post. Well, what would quickly happen is that from inserting and removing the feed plate the pattern on the sticker would get rubbed off and it would cause very erratic operation. I believe they changed to some kind of aluminum or other metal plate.

It's too bad I think these could have been good platters if they had worked out the bugs.
 

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Posted by Kenneth Wuepper (Member # 1174) on 12-05-2019, 04:52 PM:
 
I operated a booth with a single projector and the Big Sky platter. It was very reliable and worked to the end of film. The pay out sensor you refer to was easily protected with a layer of magic mending transparent tape. The glossy stuff caused poor operation as did the scuff marks from careless insertion of the brain into the platter deck.

The fail safe was very good (but we never had it deploy) and only operated as a test when doing preventive maintenance on the booth.
 

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Posted by Peter Mork (Member # 1336) on 12-08-2019, 09:22 AM:
 
An alternative to interlocking. We used to run a plattered print in two houses, staggered start times, by starting the first show, at the mid-point let the splice go through, break it and thread to a new platter.

Move the first half to a new house; start the second show when it's time. When the first show ends, move the second part to empty platter in the new house, when the break point approaches, you pull film out and into a clean box, do a splice on the fly, feed the loose film and Bob's yer uncle.

Did this often. With practice it's not as scary as you think.
 

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Posted by David Ferguson (Member # 10588) on 12-08-2019, 10:00 AM:
 
Peter, your post reminds me of a YouTube video of someone doing "changeover" with a single projector.
 

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Posted by Tony Bandiera Jr (Member # 2365) on 12-08-2019, 12:14 PM:
 
Back when I was projectionist for the Laemmle Grande in L.A. I had to do a trick similar to Peter's when a print arrived VERY late for the first show.

I built up half the print on the platter (Strong Alphas which suck balls, but that's a story for another time.) I attached the 4th reel to the platter pack from the MUT, then threaded and started the show.

As that fourth reel got pulled onto the deck I built the last two reels as the tail of each reel approached, all on the fly.

I had to be very careful to not allow any tension on the film on the deck to build up or it would have been a huge pileup. The weight of the pack on the deck kept things in place. (If you think about the physics of this, since I was started with roughly 8,000' on deck and was adding 2,000' in "reel" time as it fed into the projector, the amount of film on deck until the last two reels stayed over 4,000', just enough to prevent disaster.) But, as you can imagine, the payout was scary for that last 3,000 or so feet.

On the topic of interlocking, we had the ability to interlock screens one and two, with a custom control box that programmed the platter operation (to avoid the takeup trolly folly)...it was originally a cable that had to be physically flipped end for end each time.

It all worked surprisingly well, with the only "gotcha" being that, if you needed to stop the show, you had to trip the failsafe on the second projector... pressing stop on either automation would only stop that machine. (I found that out the hard way.)
 

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Posted by Brad Miller (Member # 2) on 12-08-2019, 06:15 PM:
 
But David's video above shows the film being run REEL TO REEL (aka: not a platter), so obviously the film is not capable of being damaged. Furthermore that's true ARCHIVAL projection since there is no platter!

The above is of course what many blind people think.
 

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Posted by Scott Norwood (Member # 30) on 12-08-2019, 06:52 PM:
 
The irony of all of this is that, now that platters are effectively obsolete, it's interesting to explain how they work to people who have never seen them in operation. I've run into a number of people who have only worked in archival/repertory exhibition who have never seen film running in a multiplex with only one operator for many screens.
 

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Posted by Marcel Birgelen (Member # 6801) on 12-08-2019, 08:53 PM:
 

quote: Peter Mork

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An alternative to interlocking. We used to run a plattered print in two houses, staggered start times, by starting the first show, at the mid-point let the splice go through, break it and thread to a new platter.

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quote:

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This is terrible film handling practice and terrible planning. As someone who has experience with temporary 35mm setups I understand that you have to do what you have to do to get the show on screen however we ALWAYS either bring three complete setups (2 projector changeover and a spare machine) or two machines and two spool towers (with one machine running a second print as a hot backup) there is no excuse for planning to damage the film this way.

It also appears they do not have the right aperture plate or lens for this screen and throw and the screen is not properly tensioned causing wrinkles. It also appears to be very very bright. I doubt they had or used a light meter here.

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Posted by Peter Mork (Member # 1336) on 12-15-2019, 01:10 PM:
 
Well, I guess you showed them! How dare a no-budget small-time operator flaunt professional standards and be clever enough to make do with a bit of improvisation.

Be charitable. The show must go on, and it did.
 

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Posted by Sean McKinnon (Member # 612) on 12-15-2019, 02:18 PM:
 
Sorry Peter but that is BS. Showing a scratched print to an audience is not OK and this method will scratch film before it hits the gate. There are other options to make the show happen. Two regular platter make up tables ok blocks with large reels would work without damaging film. Hell, 6k reels with intermissions would have been much much better. This looks like an Indian film so it would have had intermissions anyway. I'm sorry if you can't be bothered to get the wrinkles out of the screen or use a proper splicer instead of scissors that's sad. I'm sorry but the attitude of "good enough" when it comes to presentation is a contributing factor to the switch that was made to digital cinema.

Believe me I've stood and turned platters by hand for three hours, I've rigged up plenty of contraptions to get shows on screen running off the spare deck of one platter and taking up on the spare deck of another etc... I've use jumper cables to strike lamps when an igniter died and there was no spare so I understand the show must go on but the audience never knew any different. There were no scratches, no dirt, no film on the floor, If it's acceptable to you and your standards then that's ok it is not acceptable to me and I don't feel bad voicing my opinion.
 

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Posted by Brad Miller (Member # 2) on 12-15-2019, 03:25 PM:
 
In this day and age NO film damage is acceptable. New prints except for the rarest instance are simply not being made anymore.

If somebody doesn't have the means to properly handle the film, please do not take shortcuts!

20 years ago this sort of practice would've been "ok whatever it's a junk print and they are just having fun...there are hundreds more" but this is 2019.
 

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Posted by Peter Mork (Member # 1336) on 12-15-2019, 04:23 PM:
 
You guys! Running any film wears it out. Leaving it in the can keeps it pristine but is no fun.

End-of-reel cinch marks are good for you. I'm happy the audience in a tent show in Bangkok got to see a real movie, even on a wrinkled screen with no aperture plate. Ask them if they enjoyed it.

Professionalism is overrated anyway. Perfectionism is nuts. You don't get to tell others - particularly those who operate under less than ideal circumstances - what is acceptable practice. What I saw in that YouTube vid made me go "wish I'd thought of that", and I bet it did zero harm to the print.

First world problems.
 

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Posted by Steve Guttag (Member # 268) on 12-15-2019, 04:31 PM:
 
Peter...you should watch the video again...the scratches were clear and abundant. That print is forever damaged and it isn't just cinch marks.

Show them a digital version of the same movie...ask them if they enjoyed it. If that is the standard. The process they used was a destructive one.
 

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Posted by Peter Mork (Member # 1336) on 12-15-2019, 04:34 PM:
 
Well I'm glad you agree at least that cinch marks are part of the experience.
 

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Posted by Steve Guttag (Member # 268) on 12-15-2019, 05:37 PM:
 
I don't consider cinch marks to be part of the experience.
 

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Posted by Brad Miller (Member # 2) on 12-15-2019, 07:32 PM:
 
Peter, to put it bluntly, cinch marks are an experience only experienced at crappy theaters.
 

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Posted by Bill Brandenstein (Member # 7758) on 12-16-2019, 12:42 AM:
 
I'm glad I'm not likely to patronize Peter's theater.
 

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Posted by Peter Mork (Member # 1336) on 12-16-2019, 01:53 AM:
 
Fine. Anyone else care to pile on?

All I did was express admiration for some shoestring operators who were able to make a go of it in what looks to be a coffee house with a couple of benches set up for a handful of patrons. If their supplier thinks they are mishandling their goods, they can cut them off. It's not your or my business to finger-wag.

For another perspective, go back to YouTube and read some the replies to Sean's comment.
 

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Posted by Sean McKinnon (Member # 612) on 12-16-2019, 01:06 PM:
 
The bottom line is this..: I was told a long time ago by a long time theatre manager who I have a lot of respect for that when people have a bad experience they don't simply stop going to that one location they stop going to the movies period. If that's ok with some people th so be it. It's not OK with me.
 

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Posted by Tony Bandiera Jr (Member # 2365) on 12-17-2019, 11:57 PM:
 
Found another "cinema" that does the same crappy "changeover" , with a bonus out of frame splice (and what looks like flat features projected with a scope lens): More changeover wackiness

And in a reply to Sean's comments on the first video by this um, person with this wonderful video on his channel Raiden Digital's Superb Cinematography on a "Booth Tour" video...here's what he had to say about Film-Tech: (bolds added by me)

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Raiden Digital
Raiden Digital
2 hours ago
@lovitz69 It's ok. I make a lot of long winded youtube comments. Mostly to flat earthers explaining in detail how they are wrong. Then I get shadowbanned. Anyways, I don't live in Los Angeles, but in a town 120 miles outside of it. I used to have a Movies 10 dollar theater showing film here. The smallest screen there was bigger than the screen at The Stupid New Beverly. The Stupid New Beverly spent a bunch of money renovating, but the screen is still small. I will never accept Digital as the same art form, and I'm just dying to have a place with a big screen showing film daily. It's too bad everyone in the industry that could push for film to come back is lazy and apathetic. This video was linked from and is being discussed at http://www.film-tech.com/ubb/f1/t012512.html Yay film-tech, where you'll find all the most apathetic people in the former film industry. When there's a story about a movie being released on film, or a place only showing film, it's always "Ugh, why bother?" and comments like that. I really dislike a lot of those people, except Bobby Henderson, He's da man. Anyways, feel free to watch the Cinerama Dome tour on my channel. I looks like the video is taken down, but it's there. I just never set a thumbnail. I like it that way, because all the stupid flat earthers I troll out of boredom of not having a movie theater anymore, can't find my video and put stupid comments on it. So whatever, maybe we'll yak at each other over there if you feel like it.

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Maybe some of us "apathetic people" could visit his little video I linked to and perhaps leave a few choice comments?
 

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