Film-Tech Forum ARCHIVE: "Seven" DVD edition problem

This is topic "Seven" DVD edition problem in forum The Afterlife at Film-Tech Forum ARCHIVE.

To visit this topic, use this URL:
https://ft-forum.com/ft/cgi-bin/ubb/ultimatebb.cgi?ubb=get_topic;f=12;t=000023

Posted by Michael Schaffer (Member # 1204) on 02-10-2003, 10:51 AM:

I just watched "Seven" on DVD. Sometimes the left edge of the picture moved in slightly, the same effect you would get if you pushed the aperture plate in on a projector.
Has anybody watched this DVD and seen the same problem? Could it be caused by the software player (Power DVD). Unlikely, since I have not seen it on any other films.
This is a superb DVD edition with lots of bonus material (4 audio comentaries and an additional disc with documentaries). So I wondered how this could have happened unnoticed if it was caused during the transfer from film.

Posted by David Stambaugh (Member # 1102) on 02-10-2003, 11:14 AM:

It's possible that most TVs have enough overscan that this issue wouldn't be noticed except on a PC or maybe a high-end projector where there's little or no overscan. Anyway I have that DVD -- haven't noticed that problem on my Sony RPTV. Will try to remember to try it on a PC and see what happens.

Posted by Michael Schaffer (Member # 1204) on 02-10-2003, 01:19 PM:

What is TV overscan and how would it affect the playback of DVDs? I have watched this on a computer monitor as you wrote.

Posted by John Pytlak (Member # 331) on 02-10-2003, 01:50 PM:

Many older television sets using CRT displays would normally have the raster set to slightly overfill the visible faceplate area. This was done to avoid having the raster "shrink" if line voltage or horizontal/vertical output changed, thus showing black areas. This "overscan" is actually recognized by standards citing the "safe action" and "safe title" area relative to the scanned or transmitted area.

I participated in and helped tabulate the data for a comprehensive study published in the April 1974 and October 1974 SMPTE Journal: "Report on Home Receiver Image Area Test" by Roland J. Zavada.

Of course, modern display devices are not as prone to variations in raster display, having better regulated CRT scanning circuitry or solid state (LCD) displays. Of course, most computer monitors allow full adjustment of the raster size and linearity.

Posted by David Stambaugh (Member # 1102) on 02-10-2003, 01:55 PM:

Direct-view and rear-projection TVs deliberately overscan the image on the sides and the top. The reason is because as CRTs and associated circuitry age, the displayed image may "shrink" in size some. By overscanning (deliberately cropping a small part of the edge of the image), the full face of the CRT is always used. 5% overscan would be typical for a good set. This may not be the best explanation -- maybe someone else can give it a try. Also this site has a pretty good explanation of overscan.

Computer displays do not overscan. You have horizontal and vertical size controls and can tweak the image size at will so it fills the entire screen without cropping anything. Hence a DVD played back on a computer monitor should not have any overscan. The entire image as recorded on the DVD should be there.

Posted by Michael Schaffer (Member # 1204) on 02-10-2003, 01:56 PM:

I suppose the variations of picture size would affect both sides of the image. But this occured only at the left side of the screen, so I thought it must have happened during the transfer from film to DVD.

Posted by Michael Schaffer (Member # 1204) on 02-10-2003, 05:41 PM:

The problem occurs with different software players, and always in the same places. For instance, it appears at 0:14:20 and then lasts for the whole scene, but goes away exactly when the new scene starts.

Posted by Daryl C. W. O'Shea (Member # 1303) on 02-10-2003, 06:05 PM:

The most likely reason you only see it on one side of the screen is that whoever did the telecine figured the defect would never show up on someone's television since the flaw occures in the typical overscan area.

There's one movie that I remember that had a little 'black area' on the left side of the scope picture area on the 35mm film itself during a few scenes. I later remembered seeing it again while viewing the DVD on a plasma display but not on a Panasonic flat screen CRT. Now if I could only remember what the title was I would be able to concentrate on something else. [Confused]

edit: Maybe it was Se7en... I think there's a more recent one though.

Posted by Josh Kirkhart (Member # 1046) on 03-26-2003, 12:47 AM:

Just checked my 'New Line Platinum Series' Region 1, Seven dvd and looked at it in every setting I could think(using power dvd and various other players) of and no movement on screen whatsoever. What release do you have? Over here we had a crappy cheap version(not even a anamorphic transfer i believe), which I do not have, then they released the version stated above. I have bought dvd's from other regions and some have been 100% accurate and some look like re-encoded from a vcd. If yours is a general release it would be worth buying this version and just switching your region code in 'power dvd' and enjoying it. This version was mastered specifically for quality home theatres. It has a second disc(previous version was single disc) full of making of's and different aspects of the work that went into the transfer as well as alternate endings. Good Luck

Posted by David Stambaugh (Member # 1102) on 03-26-2003, 10:56 AM:

I never got back to this thread, but I did check my copy of Se7en and I didn't notice anything unusual when played back on a PC monitor.

Posted by Michael Schaffer (Member # 1204) on 03-26-2003, 11:36 AM:

Did you check the scene I pointed to above?

Posted by David Stambaugh (Member # 1102) on 03-26-2003, 11:50 AM:

Yes, I specifically checked that scene. Their didn't seem to be any problem. Maybe someone else (other than Region 1) can check there's for you.

Posted by Michael Schaffer (Member # 1204) on 03-26-2003, 04:05 PM:

Thank you very much. But please observe the info in my signature. [Wink]

Posted by David Stambaugh (Member # 1102) on 03-26-2003, 04:06 PM:

I did observe it. [Wink]

Posted by Michael Schaffer (Member # 1204) on 03-26-2003, 04:49 PM:

Oh yes, I didn`t see the subtle humour (both times the spelling is exactly the wrong way around, so I can see that it was intended this way)!! Sorry.

Posted by Michael Brown (Member # 890) on 04-07-2003, 01:32 PM:

I had widescreen copy of Mars Attacks! (2.35:1) on VHS that had a vertical black bar on the right hand side of the image. The replacement copy was fine.