Film-Tech Forum ARCHIVE: Home version of Dolby EX is better than the theatrical

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Posted by Claude S. Ayakawa (Member # 1401) on 12-26-2002, 03:05 PM:

I have been using my new Denon AVR 3802 receiver for just about a month now and one of the features I have been enjoying the most is how well the unit decodes Dolby Digital EX and DTS ES soundtracks from DVDs that have been encoded with the tracks. One of the things I did not like about the theatrical version of "STAR WARS-THE PHANTOM MENACE", the very first movie released in EX was the lack of rear sound effects when I saw the movie in two theatres with the EX sound system, the Waikiki #2 and one of the large auditoriums at the Dole Cannery 18 that has the processor. On DVD played in the 6.1 Surround mode, the rear sound effects are there and it "Kicks Ass". DVDs with DTS ES tracks such as "THE LORD OF THE RING", "THE HAUNTING", "SE7EN", "GLADIATOR", "RUSH HOUR TWO", "BONES", "BLADE -2" and "GOLDMEMBER" with true 6.1 discreet tracks are even better. Regular EX movies such as "THE EXORCIST", "TOY STORY-2" and "WHEN WE WERE SOLDIERS" that sounded great in EX in theatres, is even better at home! Whenever I watch a movie in a theatre in SRD EX, I always try to sit as close to the back wall as possible to make sure I can hear the rear tracks clearly and most of the time I do if the sound was encoded correctly on the print. At home, I do not have to do that. Even none EX titles has a nice 360 degree spread of sound and I think that is soooo cool.

-Claude

Posted by Mark Gulbrandsen (Member # 72) on 12-26-2002, 03:43 PM:

Claude, That does not surprise me a bit....most avid home theatre fans have better sound systems that most movie theatres do anyway. A sad, but true fact.
Mark @ CLACO

Posted by Gordon McLeod (Member # 33) on 12-26-2002, 06:24 PM:

I have often noticed that in home theatre enviroments the surround channels ar usually at a higher than proper levels in the first place.
I am suprised that at the Waikiki #2 you didn't notice strong localized rear channel effect as one of the HPS claims is that no ex adapter is need to provide ex localization

Posted by Don Sneed (Member # 955) on 12-26-2002, 06:50 PM:

I have the Denon AVR 4802, it also has EX...question is: If buying a new DVD player, do I have to get a DVD player that will decode EX/ES or will any DVD player do ??

Posted by Paul Linfesty (Member # 214) on 12-26-2002, 09:30 PM:

The decoding takes place in the receiver (if equipped).

Posted by Scott Norwood (Member # 30) on 12-26-2002, 10:16 PM:

Shouldn't the EX decoding work exactly the same at home as it does in the theatre? I thought that the 2:4 matrix was the same thing for both the home and theatrical systems, correct? Heck, you could even use a real SA-10 for home EX if you really wanted to.

Perhaps the difference, then, is with the room acoustics and/or the speaker placement.

Personally, I'm not a big fan of EX. It's not a complete "gimmick," but it seems to have been designed more to sell equipment than to improve the motion-picture experience for the typical audience member. I'd rather have five screen channels than EX, personally.

Posted by Claude S. Ayakawa (Member # 1401) on 12-26-2002, 11:25 PM:

Gordon,

Both of the now defunct Waikiki twin theatres were equipped with a Dolby SA-10 decoder in addition to an Xl class HPS 4000 sound system and were always used whenever the theatres ran films that had an EX track. The theatres did not depend on the HPS sound processor to decode the rear sound effects. As I had mentioned in my original thread, the lack of sound from the rear when I saw "THE PHANTOM MENACE" in two diffrent theatres with an EX sound system was due to the way the sound was encoded on the print - zero sound effects!

Scott,

I used to feel the same about theatrical EX until I got my new Denon receiver. EX decoding for the home theatre is wonderful and I like it! Now that my favorite theatres, the Waikiki theatres has closed I am now beginning to feel that watching movies in a theatre is no longer worth the time and effort. For a total rental fee of about $5.00, I watched "PLUTO NASH", "TRAPPED", and "ELKS VS. SERVER" last night and on Christmas Eve and I had a great time. I have allowed a lot of movies to play their theatrical run recently without seeing them on the big screen because I know I will enjoy them at home with better sound and a great picture. I used to feel the only way to see a movie is in a theatre but when most theatres now have small screens and average sound systems, high priced snacks, rude fellow patrons who like to talk and use their cel phones makes watching movies at home not a bad idea.

-Claude

Posted by Gordon McLeod (Member # 33) on 12-27-2002, 07:54 AM:

There is no HPS processor

Posted by Michael Schaffer (Member # 1204) on 12-27-2002, 09:27 AM:

If I am correctly informed, HPS does not recommend to use the SA10 because it is too noisy. I have not had the opportunity to compare them, but I have been told that the units offered by dts and Panastereo were much better.
The localisation of the HPS surround arrays is indeed very good even without Ex or ES. I tested that myself by playing the dts-ES setup disc and walking around the room.

Posted by Bobby Henderson (Member # 840) on 12-27-2002, 06:25 PM:

I agree to a certain extent that many home theater systems are improperly set up. One problem is the user jacks up the subwoof and surround channel levels too high. A more common problem is people just unpacking the gear, wiring it up and playing it at the factory defaults regardless of whether the levels in each channel are too low or too high. Refusing to read instructions is a great American tradition.

Scott, Smart makes a Circle Surround ES Jr. adapter for home theater systems that, in a basic sense, works on the same principal as the theatrical systems. You feed your LS and RS speaker leads into it and the unit outputs signals to LS, RS and CS speakers. I think at least a couple other companies make similar outboard units as well.

DTS-ES 6.1 is a bit different in that the Center Surround channel is fully discrete. The data in the seventh channel is automatically folded down into the LS and RS channels on a conventional DTS 5.1 setup. Of course, the DVD itself must contain a true DTS 6.1 track for true 6.1 playback since the discrete format cannot be faux-manufactured in the home theater system. DTS-ES 5.1 Matrix in the home works pretty much the same way as Dolby Digital Surround EX.

Posted by Mark Gulbrandsen (Member # 72) on 12-27-2002, 06:41 PM:

I disklile the DTS unit....Sorry Karen....its a pain in the arse to set up, and there have been a few problems with them too. The Dolby DA-10 is far easier to set up, and I have not had any noise problems with it at all. Especially considering that I am hearing the entire top end on the surround channel in our installations. I have not used the Panastereo yet, but I would easily suspect that its the best out there as their other products win hands down.
Mark @ CLACO

Posted by Steve Guttag (Member # 268) on 12-27-2002, 08:14 PM:

The biggest flaw I see in the Pana SP23 is the omission of a "non-EX" switch. You can program a format to be EX (Like Digital 1) or not (like Optical SR) but the operator doesn't get to decide on a film by film basis.

I would also like four channels of 1/3-Octave EQ. But you have to admit they crammed alot in a 1-U unit...EX decoding, processor interface, and 3-channels of 1/3-Octave EQ.

The SA-10 is not my favorite piece from Dolby.

Steve