Film-Tech Forum ARCHIVE: DVD Extras

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Posted by Ian Price (Member # 14) on 10-31-2002, 11:33 AM:

At Show East this year I received a DVD special edition of Star Trek II The Wrath of Khan.

It had an additional DVD full of extras. So I watched the film again and enjoyed watching it. Then I watched the film again with the director’s commentary running. While I enjoyed some of what he said, I also felt that he revealed too much and now I will be conscious of his words when I see the film again.

Then I watched the extra DVD and felt that it added nothing to the experience. I think too much knowledge about the process detracts from the viewing experience for the general public. Now I am sure than many find this stuff fascinating.

But I don't want to read 200 pages on how a writer came to write a novel. I don't want to read a book on how a paining was developed, don't want to see a stage presentation on how a play was put on.

The good news is I no longer get upset if I buy the early edition of a DVD without all the extras. I'm sure they have a place in the scholarly learning about filmmaking but I don't care.

I recently read an article that supported and firmed up my thinking on this subject. The basic supposition is that most Director Cuts are masturbatory exercises at best. And the reasons the films were cut in the first place still stand up. The example was Apocalypse Now Redux. That the extra scenes actually made it a slower more boring film. The article went on to say that they were glad that the DVDs existed but to always include a way to view it as originally exhibited theatrically.

My last item is that a DVD should just play automatically and not go to the menu first. Most DVD players have a menu button for that purpose. I find that when I load up a DVD in my laptop, it is very hard to navigate the menu.

Posted by David Stambaugh (Member # 1102) on 10-31-2002, 11:57 AM:

I admit I usually watch or listen to the extras such as commentary. The ST-2 extras reveal a lot about the making of the film, and I'll never be able to watch it again without thinking things like "Look, that's James Horner in that hallway shot!". I dunno how damaging this inside info really is but it definitely changes the way I view the film from that time forward.

On added footage, ST-2 is a rare exception in that I think the added scenes really do improve the story and should never have been cut in the first place. Most of the time though, the added stuff was cut for good reason and putting it back does not enhance the experience. I've mentally steered away from Apocalypse Redux because I don't want to contaminate my memory of that magical film with all that new lengthy footage that doesn't need to be there.

Posted by Jesse Skeen (Member # 586) on 10-31-2002, 01:53 PM:

I watch EVERY part of everything I buy- I even watch the "turtle" sides on laserdiscs or the 5 minutes or so of black (and that white screen with the tone) at the end of videotapes. However, DVD extras are getting to be too much of a good thing. It's nice to have 2 hours of extras on something like The Sound of Music, but do we really need the same thing on National Lampoon's Van Wilder?
Menus on DVDs are ridiculous- they feel too much like a video game or CD-rom. Many even show clips of the movie before you can do anything, so that gives away the movie before you even start watching it! The first DVDs usually just started the movie, but the techno-geeks complained that they wanted to play with the menu first.

Posted by Daniel Boisson (Member # 1027) on 10-31-2002, 02:03 PM:

I always watch the directors commentary. I think its great how the director can explain everything while you watch the movie...you learn a lot. As Spielberg said in A.I., it's probably the best thing to learn film making aside from film school.

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3% Body Fat. 1% Brain Activity.

...A projectionist without a theatre...

Posted by Don E. Nelson (Member # 1049) on 10-31-2002, 02:57 PM:

I think it all depends on the actual movie whether all the "extra' stuff" is worth watching. The new Clones Episode II DVD is being advertised as:
....with 6 hours extra material WORTH SEEING. Well that really depends on the taste and interest of the viewer.

What I would really like to see is the making of Albums (CD's)
It would be like an extended version of the old Album Liner Notes.(remember those) It would be a real kick to read a making of a CD book while listening to the actual music. It is a variation on the whole musical listening experience. The book, This Wheels On Fire (which is excellent) and tells the story of The Band, would have been great if it had come with a CD of music clips, outtakes, bootleg studio and live performances as described by the author, Levon Helm, The Drummer.
The DVD :The Last Waltz has really excellent extra material, but then again this is a concert movie. I was at this concert in 76' (Thanksgiving Day) and really enjoyed Marty Scorsses's and Robbie Robertsons comments about how the whole movie and concert came together. There was a who's who of cinematographers operating the 35mm camewras.There is also a 12 minute jam session outtake, not on the original video release. Maybe as DVD's mature, the production value of the "extra" footage will evolve for the better, but then again, back in 1980 I thought MTV would evolve into something significant !!!!

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...more signal, less noise!

Posted by Martin Brooks (Member # 1269) on 10-31-2002, 10:02 PM:

It's like anything else - if it doesn't have value for you, then you probably shouldn't watch it, but don't relate your own personal views to what you think the market wants. Obviously, there's a market for the extra value added material, otherwise the studios wouldn't be spending the money to get it on there.

As far as Director's Cuts are concerned, sometimes they work and sometimes they don't. I'd prefer that the DVDs give one a choice of which version to watch.

As for Apocalypse Now Redux, that version was very well received by the critics. The added scenes in this case actually did add much to the film, especially the sequence at the French estate, although a later added sequence with the Playboy bunnies contributed nothing of consequence. What I didn't like about Redux was that I found the remixed digital sound to actually be less effective than the original 70mm mag split surround mix. This is most apparent during the opening when the "The End" (Doors) is playing. In the 70mm mag version, the Doors music completely surrounded you and it sounded better than on the original stereo recording of the album. My wife and I saw the original at the Ziegfeld in New York. Just before the movie began, she said, "I don't know if it's worth coming into the city just to come to this theatre." The music started and she turned to me and said, "it's worth it!"

I also saw Redux at the Ziegfeld. I think the Doors song was mixed lower and less in the surrounds. Even the infamous helicopter flyovers seemed less effective in the digital remix. That was the reason that Coppola wanted the split surround format in the first place.

Posted by Mike Blakesley (Member # 26) on 11-01-2002, 12:48 AM:

What I'm waiting for is a movie that will come out in theatres and be advertised as CONTAINING FOOTAGE YOU WON'T SEE ON THE DVD!! Just think how many more tickets they would sell.

Posted by Leo Enticknap (Member # 534) on 11-01-2002, 04:59 AM:

I was at the 'Celluloid Goes Digital' conference last week (details here - PDF in German), at which many of the speakers were enthusiastically talking about the possibilities of DVD extra features for teaching and publishing academic research in history.

One point I thought they all missed is that the quality of the film transfer itself is very important. It's all very well having commentaries, stills and all the rest of it, but if the transfer itself is a 4mbit capture from a shitty print, then that IMHO defies the object of the exercise. No matter how good the sleeve notes or extras, if I see a three-hour film on a single disc then I won't buy it. Even with a multi-layer disc, 10gb is just not enough to seriously improve on VHS for that volume of footage. I'd much rather have two discs and a decent transfer, e.g. the recent PAL release of Lawrence of Arabia than one disc that looks pixellated and nasty (e.g. the British Film Institute's DVD of Seven Samurai).

Posted by Michael Schaffer (Member # 1204) on 11-01-2002, 06:03 AM:

I love the extras and the language option on DVDs. In this country, foreign movies movies are dubbed. There is only a handful of cinemas which show original versions even here in Berlin. The same applies to video stores too. There are only 2 or 3 which have OVs. All that has changed with DVD.
Of course I vastly prefer to watch a movie in a good movie theater. Just like I prefer to listen to music in a live good concert. But it is nice to have one`s favourite music or movies within reach for ready reference.
I listen to a lot of orchestral music and I like to listen to it with headphones. That is a completely different experience from the concert hall. But it is an interesting way to listen to music in a sort of analytical way, with a magnifying glass so to speak.
Audio and video recordings seem to have a fascination similar in a way to minitiatures. Some people are fascinated by planes or ships - some even by trains - and having the miniature allows them to bring a small part of their fascination into their home.
Just like I like to watch to music in an analytical way, I also like to read and and watch background material about literature and music. For me, it does not detract at all from the experience. It enhances my enjoyment for instance of Star Wars to find about the background such as all the Kurosawa quotes. I find the idea fascinating how George Lucas sat in maybe a student theater in the 60s and watched those movies and was himself fascinated so that their substance contributed to his later concept of Star Wars. Or did you know that Moby Dick was inspired by an actual incidence of a spermaceti whale ramming and sinking a whaling ship in the 1820s? I find that extremely interesting.
Back to DVDs, I watched the DVD edition of "The Devil`s Advocate" with director Hackford`s commentary. I was stunned by how much reflection had gone into every scene and it educated me very much to be a more attentive watcher of movies. Not to be able to make a film myself or talk about the movie afterwards, just to heighten my enjoyment of this and other movies that I watch.