I need your opinions on how to set up an hi-fi setup. I've bought a calibrated mic for measurement, I downloaded Spectra Lab, I tested it with internal pink noise and I had a very flat response on the screen (this tell me that program/PC/sound card are working properly).
So I connected the mic to my sound card input and start to do measurement.
After few tests, many questions come to my head.

1. Should I have the same response curve than in the cinema? So, flat wheight and -3dB per octave after 2k?
2. Subwoofer level. I believed that subwoofer should stays at the same level of front channels. So I recorded a band limited pink noise, I played through subwoofer and set subwoofer to have the same level on the RTA.

In this way, however, bass frequency seems a little poor for me.

Anyone has any suggestions?

Bye
Antonio
 

1, if you are talking home set up like bed room or livving room it can be done but, getting the propper curve and having the sound sound right is very dificult. You have a lot of furniture a bed couch and hard walls to deal with. A lot of bouncing around and absorbtion in the sound. What I have done in the past when possable is hook up designated 10 band graphic equalizers to each channel. Now to do that you need a designated pre amp output and amp imput for each channel. THen you can equally adjust each channel to achieve a given to ear sound response. Basically trial and error till you get it the way you want.

2, If it is a computer set up don't bother in my opinion. Computer sound cards and programs like to change the way the sound is represented and use 3D technology to enhance the sound.

3, Home theater set up where you use proper sound fold and do not over populate the room with furniture yes I would set it up using the calibrated mic. But still even though you equalize setting it up this way it will still boil down to what your ears like to hear.
 

The final project is a dedicated home theater setup. It will be a preamp with equalizers for all output. In the meantime I was trying to equalize my home theater in my bedroom in stereo mode.
I realize that it is hard to found a good compromise between place and taste but I believe that a mic can help you founding a "standara" setup from wich you can start playing (like bass/high, sub level ecc.).

About my previous question, it was my mistake! I realize a DTS CD with pink noise sound and I forgot that DTS LFE was set to +6. This is why in pro logic I had poor bass frequencies!

Bye
Antonio
 

For instance, I "lost" the calibrated mic that came with the RTA (actually, that mic was STOLEN) and to get a new mic, I had to send the RTA back so that the new mic could be calibrated to it (or vice-versa).

My point being that I didn't know it was possible to just "buy a calibrated mic."

Am I mistaken?
 

Perhaps "calibrated" is not the right term. I mean that I've bought a very linear mic abut, actually, I don't have any real measurement of SPL.

Gordon,
Thanks for the info. About the sub, I reset the levels and now I have good bass, both in multichannel (+10dB) and in stereo (+0dB).

A question: the hard bass boost (like disco music) is realized in recording (boosting the low bass) or in reproduction (boosting the sub)?

Bye
Antonio
 

How much "far less" the roll off?

Bye
Antonio
 

Thanks for the info on ISO curve. I'll have a search on Internet, perhaps I'll found something.

About ultra bass: I'm not going to record it or buy something. I wonder this. In cinema soundtracks subwoofer channel is set 10dB higher to have more headroom for very loud effects (up to 113db).
In Dolby Stereo subbass channel is just there to have more bass extension on the lowest frequencies but at the same leve, right?

So, if I set my Hi-Fi subwoofer for +0dB versus main speakers, I will have just the freq. responce flat up to, say, 30Hz.

But what about disco music? What about hi-fi music when the lowest frequencies are intended to be loud as at the theater?
Is it possibile to have them very loud with a sound system set to +0dB (so playing with the channel's recording) or should the system have to be set like a theater so with, say, +10dB on the sub channel?

Just a curiosity. I hope that I was clear

Bye
Antonio
 

By the way, if you still think you hear an audible improvement, do consider buying the Film-Tech line of speaker cables. Price ranges from $20-100/foot depending on the gauge and is made from genuine zip cord.

Brad and gordon, cabels do actually make a difference. I dont want you to to think less of me because of this reply, I have the greatest respect and admiration for the both of you. I have been working with home theaters now for about 10 years. The only thing i can really say that i agree with the both of you on "Cable wise" is that the copper cabel itself doesnt make a difference but more of how well the cabel is ligned with shielding material to eliminate interference of anykind. I consider the interconnect the most important part of the system ( and the first most missunderstood aspect of a soundsystem ) so that cabel has to be the best cabel in the whole rig. Now the second most important cabel is the speaker cable the second most miss understood aspect of a soundsystem. You can get by with less shielding on these cabels than you can with the interconnect. Know i know what you guys are thinking ( what a load of shit this guy is feeding us ) I know how long you guys have been in the bizz and i know how intelligent you guys are in the field of sound. I really think you guys are miss-understanding me in this area so please listen to what i haft to say.

On a entry home set up( be it 2 channel or 6 channel), hi end cabel will not give you a noticeable difference. The problem is with the system and the components you use. The "cable" just preserves the sound your sending through your components and to your speakers. If your components are cheap your going to get cheap sound no matter what kind of cable your using. My advice to Antonio was to experiment with different cable, since he is in the theater bizz and does work on sound systems.I assume he has a better than average home soundsystem. Its way cheaper than buying expensive equalizers for each channel and and making his home setup more complicated than it should be.

The only real benefit you get from hi-end cabel on a entry level system is good connection between your components and speakers.

Now on a mid level and high-end system you have to use the good or the best stuff in cable. Because the components are made better or alot better, the good or best cabel will preserve your sound from beginning to end. The cable i use is for mid to hi-end home systems. I currently run a mid level home system at home so i use a cable that best preserves my sound from components to speakers.I want to be able to hear the most from from my players,processors and speakers and i would think you do to.

Give me your reasons why you think high end cable is a gimmick.

As foil interonnects all pre made cables use either a stranded or a braided shield
proffesionally that suck use a 100% foil shield and if you want the best a carbon wrap (Beldon 9452) ad use totally balanced interconnects
 

If you find that kimber does not pass the tests then i will consider not using it.
 

Brad, Thank you very much for your understanding my point of view. You are a very wise and understanding person.Better speakers do make a difference. For hometheater use, id say 30 to 40 feet are the best dimensions to start testing cable runs for loss in signal strength. My living room is about 30 to 40 feet long and about 20 foot wide. I use a Mid level home JBL speaker system with horn drivers and all speakers are the same exact model. They all feature binding posts and i use a copper lug cable terminator for connecting the speaker cable to the speaker.

Ideally, highend cable ( like kimber for example ) should be matched with hi-end components and speakers for best results. I recommend investing in good cable when you hit mid level components. You still get the most out of your components with good cable. I tend to go with hi-end cable because im using better than average connections hence im getting better preformance from the cable.

I wish i had the money for hi-end speakers but i dont. The cable seems to be the better decision for me for my situation since cable is a bit cheaper than a hi-end speaker system. I really cant say how much better the cable I use preforms compared to other hi-end cable.I do know its better than Monster cable. I have had bad experience's with monster cable.On some instances better cable made an audible difference on some gear. I only suggested to Antonio that he should experiment with different and perhaps better cable before he invested in equalizers. He could very well hear a difference that he likes witout having to make his setup more complicated than i should.

I wish i knew more about commercial theater setups to be able to set one up on my own. I could then really test hi-end cables and make comparisons.

quote:

---

I wish i had the money for hi-end speakers but i dont. The cable seems to be the better decision for me for my situation since cable is a bit cheaper than a hi-end speaker system.

---

For your 40 x 20 room, save your money for decent speakers and go with good old-fashioned 12-guage stranded zip cord at Home Depot. I've done A/B tests with two audiophile friends in Toronto (and one in New York) where I went over to their expensive setups and swapped wires with 12-AWG zip. They were blindfolded for these tests, and I repeated them a total of about 10 or 15 times each over the course of an evening. One person was able to guess correctly about 6 times in a row then went back to not being able to accurately tell the difference. Once, with one guy, I swapped cables exactly *twice* and then just made shuffiling noises and screwed and unscrewed terminals using the ZIP cord...he gave me a different response every time, and was 100% positive of the results.

Interconnects are a different breed, and I'd agree with getting good ones, but don't go nuts.

As I mentioned in another thread, try auditioning a set of matched Paradigm Monitor series speakers. They're much cheaper than many so-called high-end speakers and will give you amazing performance.

As to EQ, I have two distinct thoughts. From a purely technical standpoint Gord's right about the curve. The ISO-2969 curve is used for cinema and mixing studios, which have both direct (near-field) and reverberative sound fields. In the home situation, you're generally only dealing with a direct sound field, and going flat-out further is definitely warranted. My other thought mirror's Darryl's suggestion, and let your ears decide. YOU are the one who will be listening to this system, and maybe YOU like more bass or higher highs or whatever.

For your Sub, try to achieve a flat response down as low as your sub will go. You shouldn't ideally want a boost, but rather a smoooooooth response, ideally from 20 Hz to about 4-6k, then a gentle roll-off after that.

Also, how old are you? No, I'm not being nosy--but after you hit about 35-45 years old, your hearing starts to attenuate the higher-frequencies. If you roll off the highs in accordance with ISO-2969, and you've suffered some HF loss, you'll be subjecting yourself to a double-whammy.

I'd suggest you buy the best speakers you can afford (save if you must, but remember that you can get a full 6.1 or even 7.1 speaker setup for about $1,200 US). Set them up as well as you can directly-without EQing, and even without plugging in the RTA. Just set the levels with your SPL meter (remember, home theatre recomended practice is 75 dB, C-weighted Slow response, not the 85 dB-C recommended for theatres). Listen to several familiar pieces of source material over a period of days--playing your favourites about half a dozen times each. Note the way it sounds, THEN take out the toys and see what you have. I'll bet that unless your room has some hideous peaks and valleys, you'll find that you don't need to do all that much spending and tweaking.

Good Luck!

Does anyone notice that film and music recording studios use the kind of wire Gord mentioned? What kind of magic wire restores the sound quality that must have been destroyes as the poor electrons struggled through that crap?

Gotta go, I need to put some green marker on the edges of my new CDs. Makes them sound much better.

 

What you said is correct. I'm going to build my own Hi-End home theater, using a big garage, a 4688 subwoofer, QSC amps... I was searching for hi-fi speakers then I tought that the movie soundtracks are created using pro stuff (amps, cables, speakers) and created FOR pro stuff (amps, cables, speakers). SO I realized that a very expensive Hi-Fi amplifier will be a vaste of money since it will be play sounds that cannot be hear in rec roooms!

About cables, I have a question. How do you usually wire theaters? Using standard cables twisted? Our tech told me to use 4-pole cable, then to connect + to two opposite pole and - to the others two. (is it clear? )

About EQ: Peter you're right. But after have changed the speaker position, I would like to achieve a good ISO response, and THEN (from a known situation) try different solution "by ear".
In other words, I would like to start from a known situation.

Of course, I'll try to "equalize" the room changing the room itself prior to star using an equalizer!

About the ISo curve: why should be differences equalizing a big and a small room? However for a bedroom you suggest almost flat 20-20.000?

Thanks for your help!

------------------
Antonio Marcheselli
Florence, Italy

Peter, You never mentioned what kind of cable your friend was using and what kind of system ( including the speakers ) you did your swapping tests on.What are the conditions in which his system is set up?

Do your audio file friends set up systems? Have you ever been to a audio electronics store that sold professional gear and tested your zip chord in various conditions and on various speakers.

I bet you didnt know that the cable i use supports more energy than your ZIP chord does and rejects RF noise. Visit http://www.kimber.com

Alot of your professional home audio dealerships use kimber cable. The founder Ray Kimber comes from the commercial and pro audio world. Even Lucasfilm recognize's the benefits of using professional cable, even in their screening rooms.

I personally have never seen ZIP chord from homedepo or from any home improvement store used in professional audio setups. I dont even see it sold for professional audio applications.

There is no advantage to using any really highend cable as the energy that copper can conduct vs its heating effect and voltage drop is a matter of physics and anyone who claims otherwise is full of black magic

In almost all theatres I use 10AWG THNN T90 stranded pairs and twist them and then to meet firecode they are in conduit

If the cable has a layn twist it will reject almost all RF interference

Gordon, anybody who braids a positive and a negative wire together (a counter rotation design to be exact ) will eliminate alot of RF interferrence. Your 10AWG THNN T90 wire lacks a couple of important features. It lacks a viastrand design. That means the strands of copper that would be within one single covering jacket are instead isolated into various sizes ranging from hair thin to standard size.All groups independantly covered by their own jacket. This method prevents unwanted powersurges to the speakers and rejects more RF noise. The only time all the groups of wire ever touch each other are when they are terminated and connected to the speaker or amp. The second feature is the jacket. The Kimber cable ( their newest brands ) has a special jacket that bonds to the copper itself. Whats the purpose? Its so that the jacket wont ever erode under extreme conditions and expose the copper wire. To top everything off,the copper Kimber uses is very pure and very durable.

Their is no voo-doo black magic in the kind of professional i use. Its all scientifically proven technology. I really think you need to understand cable science a little bit more before you go off and say professional cable is a bunch of mumbo-jumbo black magic.

Go to a professional audio dealer with your theater cable and let them test it.
 

So twisted cables helps in RF reduction.
And what is the improvement of the HPS4000? Our tech told us about limiting the power loss...

Bye
Antonio
 

As anyone in "cinema THX" will tell you (off the record of course), "home THX" is a joke. Gordon is real cinema THX certified and he does know what he is doing. Anyone who is dealing equipment at the "home THX" level and is not a part of the "cinema THX" program should not be taken too seriously IMHO. I'm not trying to be mean here, but trust me, you are being suckered by the hi-fi audio store. Save your money. Buy better speakers. Any wire priced "by the foot" is a scam.
 

quote:

---

Any wire priced "by the foot" is a scam.

---

What? You mean my 22-cents-a-foot for #12 AWG zip cord was a ripoff?

As for RF shielding, I can't say I've tried anything specifically to provide an RF shield. HOWEVER, I can give you my results with the aforementioned zipcord. As you can see from my .sig, I'm an amateur radio operator, and in my top-floor apartment I operate a 100W transmitter on numerous frequency bands between 7 MHz and 29 MHz, and two other transmitters at approximately 50W in the 144 MHz and 440 MHz ranges. The antennae are situated on the roof, almost directly above my home theatre.

When I'm transmitting there's no RFI to anything with only one small exception: at 14 MHz, my el-cheapo Infiniti surround-back speaker (fed by a NAD amp) picks up some RFI. If I turn off that 20+ year old amp, it goes away and all is silent. My wife and I have tested this extensively and I've yet to find any frequency or power level that induces any form of RFI into the system.

While I can't say I've done any serious A/B tests or performed any sort of hard scientific analysis, I can tell you that my setup has been extremely good in rejecting strong nearby RF energy at HF, VHF and UHF frequencies.

Adam asked:

quote:

---

Stupid question of the day: What is meant by "interconnects"?

---

This is the cabling that connects the various components within the system (i.e. your DVD Player to your preamp or the SR-D unit to the processor, etc).

------------------
Cheers,
Peter, W2IRT

No xenon lamps were exploded in creating this message,
but several thousand electrons were terribly inconvenienced.

It has been shown that the amount of copper in the circular mil area of the cable is the limiting factor in its power loss in transmission
It max carrying cabality is the factor of the insulation withstanding the heating effect and the drop across the run

The rise time of that square wave is a direct product of how well the ampl;ifier can control the piston action of the speaker

There is no rocket science to speaker cable it is a mater of mass
Smaller stranding does increase the surface area that in effect should reduce skin effect but I would guarentee that that has no effect in the range of the audio spectrum

The disadvantage of stranded wire is that there is a build up of stray capacitance over long runs and that will effect damping factor

PS I looked at that Kimber information and am postivie that there is no baseis for the hocus pocus they are selling

Gordon, brad, I still respect you guys and all others here to the fullest. I think you are awsome people and i have nothing against you.

Your still wrong about my kimber cable. Looking up info only goes so far.You haft to see it in action. Im shure your cable works fine in long lengths. My home system cost me about 10,000 $$$ in the course of 7 years. I only paid 110 $ dollars for 100 feet seven years ago and thats the last time i have personally spent money on cable.

I still dont know why you wont go to a dealer that sells Kimber and do your tests. Cable is the most over looked aspect of a sound system in my opinion. Most everyone wont pay but 25 to 50 cents a foot and most dont even know about professional cable. You can test your cable all you want and im shure you may get good results. Go and test some kimber cable.

Brad, i have home THX and guess what, 99% of the time i never use the THX feature. I agree completely its a joke but every once in a while it comes in handy on a movie thats really shrill sounding in nature.I never said lucasfilm uses hi-end cable, i only said they recognize the benefits of using professional cable and im not quoting atricles form stereo magazines.

------------------
Adam Fraser
www.pinestheatre.com
 

Home THX is a feature. It changes the final equalization of the sound (drop on the HF to compensate the loss of the screen plus more that I do not remember now).
More, THX EX is theater's "dolby ex".

Bye
Antonio
 

Gordon and Brad, this battle between cables is not over.I have some backup and you should see some data soon

Oh and this is friendly debating by the way. This debating is fun and i hope you agree aswell
 

But can anyone tell me more about the ISO curve to be used in an Home Theater setup?

Bye
Antonio
 

Antonio,In my opinion you dont need equalization on a home system.Your sound will be very good as long as you use good equipment. I hear this from all kinds of dealers especially the THX dealers. The problem with home equalization is that it often ruins your sound more than it helps it. Home equalizers are NOT made like the equalizers are in a cinema processor. These consumer versions create more distortion and when you boost a signal on them, your just adding more distortion thus ruining your sound quality. A good speaker will sound very flat in most any home enviorment. The only 2 kinds of equalizers I would personally even halfway consider are the ones made by RANE and Audio Control ( they are built better than your average equalizer ) but most people i talk to who use those products are using it because of acoustic problems within their rooms, they dont use them just to boost sound quality from speakers.

I have talked to quite a few people who often get home theater principals confused with professional cinema principals and lot of those people happen to be young projectionists and car stereo nuts. Alot of people just dont understand why the cinema systems are as complicated as they are and why home systems are as simple as they are.When you try to make a simple system as compicated as a cinema system you defeat the goals of a good home system and ruin your systems preformance and loose alot of cash in the process. Home systems were never intended to work like a commercial system.

Antonio, i have seen both sides of the fence so to say and i see faults on both sides. My advice to you would be to keep the equalizers in the professional domain and stick with good components for home use.

The subject of cable that is being debated on this thread is a issue that can benefit both worlds "the consumer and professional". This is what im trying to convince to Brad and Gordon.

Antonio, visit http://www.kimber.com and go through the whole site. Look at everything!! ( Gordon, Brad are you listening? )Any questions can be directed to- todd@kimber.com I really reccomend you talk to this gentleman. He can explain alot about the cable technology that am not able to do. Todd has even read this debate on this forum.
 

I do not completely agree with you!

First, I will build my home theater with QSC amplifier, so it will be "a bit" professional
Then, I saw behringer equalizer that I think are a good piece of equipment behringer equalizer

I agree with you that in a home theater the need of equalization is not critical as in a theater. However home speakers are not "professional" and they often sounds like the builder has decised to make them sounds. In other words a professional speaker will be designed to meet ISO curve, a home speaker not. With my RTA I had to make great adjustments to the "bass/treble" knobs on my amp to achieve at best the ISO curve.

I wand to buy good speakers but then I want to have them sound as standards say. Only then, I will adjust the whole system as my ears say!

More: an equalizer on the subwoofer will be critical also in the home field.

A couple of the equalizer shown before will be not affected the cost of the entire HT.

Opinions?

Bye
Antonio

By the way to the rest of the members, am I the only person who has gone into these "home theater" stores and NOT been impressed with the sound?
 

Antonio, Brad, and Gordon, I respect your opinions and I respect you all just as much but I must say that their are many really good sounding speakers on the market that sound very good and/or sound remarkably flat. B&W, M&K, SNELL, MARTIN LOGAN, ATLANTIC TECHNOLOGY, McINTOSH,and BOSTON ACOUSTICS just to name a few. You cant go into a Best Buy or Circuit City for example and expect to get good quality sound( they relly dont sell good quality products either ). Everything is hooked up to switch boards and that kills any good sound quality from any speaker.

Gordan and Brad, Have you been to a home THX dealership and sat in on some of the demos. I have a sneaky suspicion you have only been to stores like Best Buy and Circuit City and stores of the like.

I remember sitting in on a demo at a hi-end dealership ( this one was not a THX dealership ) that used KRELL processing equipment and amps and B&W speakers. The only words I could say were "My God"!! The speakers didnt even exist during the demo. The walls in the room disappeared and everything sounded so natural and real. I was "IN" the movie for as long as the demo lasted. Needles to say this system put my stuff to total shit and they used kimber cable for the setup aswell.

As for equalizers, I just dont see many people using them on good equipment. I personally would never cross professional cinema gear with consumer gear. Your consumer gear does not have the same quality build as the professional gear has (depending on what kind of consumer gear your using ). Their are many great sounding amps on the market. SNELL, MARANTZ, BRYSTON, LEXICON, ROTEL,and DENON are some of the few I can name off hand and most i mentioned sport XLR inputs.

I Humbly suggest that you e-mail todd@kimber.com he can answer alot of the cable questions about kimber you guys think is a gimmick. He knows what up on this debate we are having here. All i ask you to do is e-mail him and talk with the guy. It doesnt cost you anything and you would be doing me a nice favor.

I still think you guys are "AWESOME" people and we can only learn more on what we allready know. I dont want you guys to have anything against because of these debates.

No problem, this is a Forum, each member has its own opinion, we are here to share them!

Brad,

I was in Hi-Fi store just few times and, really, I was not so impressed each time.

Justin,

I mean to install equalizer in my future home theater. Then the way I'll use them will bring to very different results of course. I do not agree with "hi-fi" men that equalizers are death. I believe that if used correctly, equalizers can be a good part of your equipment.

And, I repet, on very low end I believe that equalizers are absolutely needed.

What do you think about the behringer I've posted?

Bye
Antonio
 

Just remember you are on a CINEMA forum, and not one for "home theater" when you start insinuating that the techs on this forum do not know what they are doing. I know of no one in the cinema industry that is impressed with "home theater" setups and equipment. The replies are already starting to show that. In fact, the only home theater systems I have ever been impressed with were made from cinema grade equipment. Your questions and plugging for Kimber belong on a more appropriate forum than Film-Tech.

Now run down to the Rat Shack and buy you a $20 roll of cheap 16 gauge zip cord and do your own comparisons with what you think is the best wire on the planet vs. what would probably be considered the worst wire on the planet. In a home theater setup with a small room, there will be no audible difference. Don't let people bullshit you into thinking that there is. And more importantly, please don't spread that nonsense here. If you really think you can hear a difference (and you have conducted your own A/B tests and had no idea at which point you were listening to A and which point you were listening to B), then please feel free to post your findings here. Opinions are welcome, but do make sure you are clearly stating them as your own opinions when it comes to scams like this. Some people will believe anything they read.

I am often amazed when I browse the magazine racks and see the Hi Fi Audiopile magazine covers. They almost always picture home theater setups where the room is completely open to the rest of the house and the "theater" has hardwood floors and like a 17 foot high arched ceiling! I don't care what anyone says, a room like that is gonna sound like crap.

I experimented with various speaker & interconnect cables: Radio Shack, Monster, Kimber-cable, AudioQuest, and the cheap ones given away with new mass-market audio equipment. I was hard-pressed to tell any difference among any of the different cables, and believe me, I WANTED to hear a difference. I was into The Absolute Sound magazine, read all the stuff their reviewers said about how this or that cable enhanced or degraded the sound of their systems. But I could not tell any difference.

The story was different with electronics though. I could EASILY hear differences between different amps and preamps. Audiophiles shunned any kind of tone controls or equalizers at that time, claiming that the more "stuff" in line with the signal, the less "pure" the signal will be. My system didn't have tone controls or equalization. One time though I got a dealer to let me borrow an expensive Soundcraftsmen equalizer and the sound quality of my system was noticeably degraded by it.

Antonio, Gordon, and David, I think you are the most sane and understanding people on this thread.I was wondering when more people would join in on the debate. Brad and Joe, I never said that you guys didnt know what you are doing.

Joe, your right about saying that cables dont know how big your room is and they do nothing to improve acoustics but im willing to say that your speakers do Speakers can often tell you if you have good or bad acoustics and depending on the room size they can tell you how much power they need. Cable's only maintain the quality of your components from point A to point B.Its really just boils down to length from point A and B. Cables do add fidelity to your sound.I cant explain the science of cables, I dont have the knowledge. See where my arguement is about cable. Talk to todd@kimber.com He is a nice guy.

Brad, if this is a cinema forum then why did Antonio post a home theater topic?

Gordon, many people I have talked to and have been to their houses who are sreious about audio have a dedicated room for movies and music. These rooms are very acoustic meaning the rooms were made for sound systems. I do agree that alot of people use the worst rooms possible and I also see it all the time on the covers of magazines.I hardly ever pic up a stereo magazine. Its all pretty much bullshit in those books. The people who write those books work for companies to so its all about advertisement in stereo books.

Brad, notice that in some of those hi-end home theater stores you go to have the worst room acoustics. The most of the ones I go to have acoustics in mind when they demo( call it lucky ). Im not going to comment on your "now go off and run to your ratshack stores and test your cable" I wouldnt spend 10,000 on any one piece of stereo equipment and I have never seen a 20,000 dollar turntable either. That shit is for people who have money to burn.

I have never said equalizers were a total taboo.I said most people I talk to who use them use them for acoustic problems. A good home system with good acoustics in mind will most likely never need any equalization. I do agree with the equalization of low frequencies. A good sub is hard to find and I do hear from some home theater owners who use equalizers for the sub. I still stand by my opinion on on equalization of main speakers. I really believe your going to do more harm than good on a good system thats really not going to benefit from it. I will tell ya a little secret about home equalization. The biggest problem ( beleive it or not ) is in the midrange. I see some equalizers that only focus on the frequencies from 80 to 800 for the mains.

I have heard from some techs say that the ISO curv ( for the commercial cinema) doesnt exactly give you the best results. I dont know if thats true or not. I currently have never heard a flat sounding commercial sound system where I watch movies.

I still respect all of you guys a great deal and "YOU" most of all Brad. I think all you you guys are very skilled in your profession but it seems that you could see things from a different perspective than how you see things now.

I know that when most of you finish reading this reply you will still have it in your mind that im am full of the worst bullshit possible.It doesnt make a bit of difference to me, this is still friendly debate. I dont see how anybody could ever be offended by it, right Brad and Joe
 

For the last time, the kind of THX you speak of is HOME THX and is NOT real genuine "cinema THX". The requirements are nothing alike. Home THX is a joke and every professional knows it. You are getting all of your knowledge from these hi-fi stores that are only out to sell you their overpriced equipment and connectors and will tell you whatever it is that you want to hear to make a sale. Plus you are babbling on and on pitching this overpriced wire and yet you have never personally done an A/B test!!! (Hi-Fi stores do not count, as many rig the demos.) The bottom line...YOU ARE BEING SCAMMED! I know it sounds convincing, but please wake up and listen to what people are trying to teach you. The professionals here know better, but the newbies can only go on what they read. You are doing them a disservice and that brings me to a point where I need to step in and put a stop to it.

You have put in far more than enough plugs for your buddy Todd at Kimber cable, even after I requested you stop plugging them. As a result of some email requests this evening to put a stop to this nonsense and my own personal agreement with them that you are being fed a scam and that this cable does NOT make an audible difference, I am closing this thread.

You are not to speak of this brand of cable again on these forums.
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To Mr.Kimber,

If you really think this cable of yours is as good as Justin seems to think it is and that it actually makes an audible difference, send me a roll of it and the next time we have a Film-Tech gathering I will set up a FAIR demonstration (with witnesses) from professionals in the cinema field in my screening room and do random A/B listening tests. I will also make sure that everyone doing the listening tests will be able to verify that the connection and A/B switcher is 100% fair to both cables and I will have at least one witness in the booth monitoring the switching. I will need about 150 feet of it to connect two speakers. Beware though (this is the bad part) good or bad, the results will be posted on this site. Again, it must make an AUDIBLE difference or you will not like what you see printed.

If you choose to accept the challenge, email me directly. Do not go through Justin.

Now enough of this nonsense. Thread closed.