Film-Tech Forum ARCHIVE: Rental DVDs Damaged More Than Tapes

This is topic Rental DVDs Damaged More Than Tapes in forum The Afterlife at Film-Tech Forum ARCHIVE.

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Posted by John Pytlak (Member # 331) on 07-31-2003, 02:21 PM:

Interesting article in Video Store Magazine says rental DVD damage costs $50 million per year:

http://www.videostoremag.com/news/html/breaking_article.cfm?article_id=5141

(Original link was posted by Daisy Pommer of WNET-TV on the AMIA list serve.)

Posted by Elena N. Solovyova (Member # 1636) on 08-01-2003, 01:58 AM:

I guess customers are just careless enough to drop disks on the floor. This "damage" can be easily removed by polishing the "glass" side of the disk.

(Just my experience with DVD library [Smile]

)

Posted by Joe Redifer (Member # 3) on 08-01-2003, 02:05 AM:

It's not that people are careless. It's that people are stupid. DVDs are easy to damage. People do not realize the care that needs to be taken. Even if they did realize it, it's not their property so why should they be careful? They have the same attitude as morons who break down a print using masking tape and not attaching the correct reel bands. They don't have to deal with it, so it's not their problem.

Posted by Pravin Ratnam (Member # 1417) on 08-01-2003, 02:10 AM:

Considering DVD material is damn cheap and that stores like blockbuster have essentially licensing deals, i don't see why great care has to be taken of rental dvds. just replace a defective one with a new one after striking a per rental deal instead of a per dvd deal with the studios.

Posted by Darryl Spicer (Member # 711) on 08-01-2003, 03:15 AM:

man is this ever true. I hate renting DVD's because of this. I tried watching a couple the other day but my player would just stop in certain areas and skip around in others. One thing I notece too is they use those flimsy crappy disc holders like DTS was using before they went back to the good ones.

Posted by Ron Lacheur (Member # 1126) on 08-01-2003, 04:17 AM:

I agree with Joe. Most people don't put them back into the case when they are finished with the disc. They put them on the coffee table, the top of the dvd player..etc..etc...that's how they get scratched.

Posted by Evans A Criswell (Member # 381) on 08-01-2003, 08:29 PM:

All of the things discussed here are reasons that I do not like to lend CDs and DVDs to people. They just don't take care of them. I keep all my CDs and DVDs in the original cases and the discs are always either in the player/drive, in the case, or being moved from one to the other. I always took care of my vinyl records in the same manner.

Posted by Bobby Henderson (Member # 840) on 08-01-2003, 11:31 PM:

Pravin,

The cost of DVDs may be cheap, but customers still should take care of them instead acting like filthy feces-soiled pigs. I really HATE renting a DVD and having the thing glitch out near the climax of the movie. That involves a trip back to the video store to get another copy (that you don't know for sure is glitch free either) and trying it out again.

I want to find the MORON that caused me that inconvenience and slap him with a graphic design bill for $40. $35 is for the hour of MY TIME that he wasted by inconvenicing me. $5 is for the gas money, upkeep on my truck, etc. involved in going to/from the video store. If he asks me for a computer file to go with the design charge, I'll e-mail him an Acrobat PDF file saying "F.U. learn how to handle DVDs!"

The only upshot to this is renting a bad movie that isn't worth finishing. I at least have a legitimate reason to get a refund.

If I were running a video store, I would at least post some notices to educate people about DVD handling. Too many think it is just like a CD --and many people have horribly stupid habits when it comes to handling CDs. I would probably approach it from a manner of "keep rental prices low by taking care in handling DVDs".

Some video stores don't give a shit either. Hastings Books and Video (a regional video chain that serves north Texas and Oklahoma) has a very dumb habit. They put all rental discs in a small, white translucent plastic case designed to hold only one disc. What do they do with the growing number of 2-disc releases? Cram them both into the same single disc container! [Mad]

I've complained repeatedly to them about that nonsense yet they've done nothing to change it. And I find that frustrating because their selection of DVD rentals is far better than that of Hollywood Video or Blockbuster. But whenever a movie has a 2-disc DVD package, I'll choose Blockbuster or Hollywood to rent it. I'm not taking any chances with Hastings anymore on that front. [fu]

Posted by Per Hauberg (Member # 529) on 08-02-2003, 04:30 AM:

quote:
Most people don't put them back into the case when they are finished with the disc. They put them on the coffee table, the top of the dvd player..etc..etc...that's how they get scratched.

That's just it: In connection to my cinema, I have a small video rental with currently about 1500 VHS, 800 DVD titles.
We run a special offer: Take two premiere titles, and get two old ones free - keep them for two days. -Be sure, those four DVDs are mixed in the covers when returned, showing that they are all there, skating around on the cofee-table for two days instead of being put back into the right cover at once, when played.

quote:
just replace a defective one with a new one

Sure, but why ? - Just because "This is not my own DVD, then why treat like it was. It's just a rental, so I'm allowed to put my big fat greased fingers all over it and let the kids play frisbee with it. The Store can just give me a new one next time"
So sweet !

Short of story is, that DVDs are not rental-friendly, as long as custumer moral is like it is. One should stay with selling instead of buy them for rental. The stuff is much too fragile for being handled by pigs.

[Mad]

Posted by Bobby Henderson (Member # 840) on 08-02-2003, 01:43 PM:

The DVD format would have failed miserably if the discs were never offered for rent. This is the very reason why the Laserdisc format failed. Who in their right mind wants to buy every movie they watch?

I have around 130 DVDs in my collection, all of which I have been purchasing since 1999. The only disc failures I have had were glue layer separation defects in copies of "American Beauty" "The Crow" and "Three Kings". I have lost absolutely none through my own use. This is why I am completely unforgiving when it comes to how people treat rental discs. If I had my way, the video store would check the discs and then bill the damned pigs that screwed up the platter for the cost of the disc's replacement!

Kids are one cause that can be attributing to DVD rental disc damage. I've seen the problem play out in front of me as I watched one of my friends allow his kid to badly misuse rented DVDs and X-Box discs, just laying them bare on the carpet. My opinion: parents should not allow young kids to handle DVDs regardless of how cute they might think it is or what the kid may be learning how to do. Nuts to that garbage!

Our society is badly neglecting to teach people some of the most basic aspects of having honor. One of those things is "the golden rule": treat others as you wish to be treated. That rule extends to property. I don't break a DVD that is not mine, that is only a disc I rented. I care for it the same way as I care for my own.

That also reminds me of a thing that pisses me off at commercial theaters. People (or should I say PIGS) who dump their sodas and popcorn out all over the floor. Would they do that shit in their own living room when watching a movie at home!? Then what the fuck gives them the right to do that at a commerical theater? Assholes!

Posted by Jesse Skeen (Member # 586) on 08-02-2003, 01:47 PM:

DVDs are priced low enough that I've never had to rent one- anything I care about seeing I buy. Laserdiscs were priced too high to do that- did ANYONE actually pay the $40 retail price for Pauly Shore's "Jury Duty"?

Posted by Leo Enticknap (Member # 534) on 08-04-2003, 10:47 AM:

I'm not surprised this is turning out to be more of an issue with digital formats. With analogue - i.e. VHS - minor damage would be visible on the screen, e.g. as dropouts, but it wouldn't stop the tape from playing. With a digital format either you get perfect reproduction or nothing at all. Could this be one of the reasons why the industry seems to be moving toward disposable, self-destruct DVDs?

I agree with Pravin - once you've paid for the glass master, the cost of pressing copies is insignificant. All it would take is for the person in the shop to check the data side of each disc for visible scratching upon issue and return, then if the disc is knackered, bin it and stick a new one in the sleeve.

When the customer hires a disc, then by taking it out of the shop (s)he accepts that it is scratch free. If upon return it is found to be damaged, I don't see any reason why the shop shouldn't charge the customer a massive fine - many times more than the replacement cost of the disc. That should take care of the problem.

However I suppose that time-limited, disposable discs would also eliminate the problem of customers arguing about what condition the disc was in when they rented it.

Posted by John Pytlak (Member # 331) on 08-04-2003, 01:45 PM:

I usually listen to a classical music station where most of the programming is broadcast directly off CDs. Several times a week I hear either the stuttering echo of a track (for each rotation of the CD), or a total skip to another section of the disk.

Never have had the problem at home with either CDs or DVDs that I OWN and am responsible for.

Posted by Tao Yue (Member # 836) on 08-04-2003, 03:02 PM:

But also -- videos are enclosed in a relatively durable plastic cassette. How damage-free would they stay if Mr. Average Consumer had to thread them reel-to-reel?

Kind of makes me wish they'd stuck with caddies for DVDs. Of course, this'd cause a problem with DVD-ROM drives, and if you make them easily removable for computer use, then that defeats the point of caddies. Helps prevent piracy, though. [beer]

Posted by Dennis Benjamin (Member # 1137) on 08-04-2003, 03:37 PM:

I do not rent DVD's from the video store anymore because of this problem. I had rented a copy of "Blade 2" when it came out,from a local store, it almost ruined my DVD player. Thank God for Netflix.com (mentioned in other posts). At least the people that have joined Netflix seem to be more careful when they handle those DVDs -AND- there is no gas wasted for a trip to the store, etc.

Posted by David Stambaugh (Member # 1102) on 08-04-2003, 04:54 PM:

Unless you hand the returned disc(s) directly to a clerk who immediately inspects them for damage in your presence before checking them in, you'll have people claiming "That disc was in perfect condition when I dropped it off! One of your employees must have scratched it. I'm not paying." The big chain stores have drive-by dropoff bins for returning discs. Who knows what happens to those discs after you drop them down the chute? At least that's what people will argue if they're accused of damaging them...

Posted by Bruce McGee (Member # 131) on 08-04-2003, 08:42 PM:

I get lots of rental DVD's. I usually end up washing most of them to get all of the goo and fingerprints off.

None of my own discs are scratched. I dont do that.

BTW: How does a defective DVD damage a player?

Just wondering.

Posted by Leo Enticknap (Member # 534) on 08-05-2003, 06:44 AM:

The only way I can see how is if an abrasive piece of dirt stuck to the disc surface finds its way onto the pickup lens (or other critical part) by centrifugal force once the disc is spinning.

Posted by Bruce McGee (Member # 131) on 08-05-2003, 07:25 AM:

Thanks, Leo. Thats what I thought it might be.

I bought my first DVD player at Christmas this year. Since then, I have been given 2 of them. Friends that smoke run their machines until they die, then replace them. You'd be amazed at how dirty the laser lens gets from second-hand smoke. BOTH of these free machines work fine after the cleanings. One is in the bedroom, and the other is hooked to the shop TV.

Posted by Chris Hipp (Member # 1788) on 08-05-2003, 03:03 PM:

This is the main reason why I don't rent DVDs or video games.
When I tried netflix a couple of years ago probably half of the DVDs I recieved could not even play.

Personally, I won't spend more than $15 on a DVD (the only exception was when I bought the Godfather trilogy). I would rather spend the extra $5 than go through the trouble of taking back the same movie three times to get one that works. If you dont liek the movie you can always sell the DVD.

Posted by John Lasher (Member # 968) on 08-05-2003, 08:42 PM:

with video rentals you can't do the thing that Music & Arts (where I work) does with their instruments, when an instrument is returned to the store, it goes back to the main warehouse where it is inspected, repaired(if needed), and cleaned. Then they send it back to a store with a note tucked inside the case that says that the instrument is in perfect condition (as far as playing it, some of the ones that have been out more than 2 or 3 times will show some wear in the finish, especially the smaller violins).

Posted by Elena N. Solovyova (Member # 1636) on 08-06-2003, 12:53 AM:

I never saw a rental tape in "perfect" condition.

Rental DVDs are perfect, if only not defective.

Posted by Thomas Procyk (Member # 1170) on 08-06-2003, 02:49 AM:

quote:
Thank God for Netflix.com (mentioned in other posts). At least the people that have joined Netflix seem to be more careful when they handle those DVDs -AND- there is no gas wasted for a trip to the store, etc.

You CAN'T be SERIOUS!?!?! My friend has a NetFlix subscription and every mainstream DVD she's rented came looking like it's been dragged behind the mail truck before they dropped it off. Of course, they all played, but they looked like absolute hell. The only exception are the classic films or concerts she rents. Since those probably aren't checked out as much, they look much better but nowhere near as good as I would take care of a disc I bought.

People in general will fuck up anything they won't have to deal with in the future. Take our planet for example.

=TMP=

Posted by Michael Barry (Member # 237) on 08-06-2003, 04:05 AM:

I wonder which of these two scenarios is true:

1) People who trash rental discs actually look after their own discs perfectly; or

2) People who trash rental discs also trash their own discs.

It's hard to say, but neither would really surprise me, although what I can't understand about 1) is that looking after a disc actually requires less effort than not looking after it (placing a disc back in the case is easier than not putting it back, and is less time consuming). Or do people really go through this thing of, 'Oh, wait a minute...that disc I just replaced in the case is a rental disc. Better use it for a coaster first before returning it'.

Thoughts?

Posted by Leo Enticknap (Member # 534) on 08-11-2003, 09:40 AM:

quote:
Friends that smoke run their machines until they die, then replace them. You'd be amazed at how dirty the laser lens gets from second-hand smoke.

Nothing surprises me about how horrid the inside of any piece of electrical machinery can get when it is used for any significant length of time with a chain-smoker in close proximity.

An ex-girlfriend who could puff for England once asked me to look at her PC, which was behaving erratically (e.g. suddenly freezing or blue-screen crashing for no good reason). I assumed a virus and looked at everything I could think of from a software point of view, without coming across any obvious problem. After a while a pattern emerged: it only started playing up after it had been running for a couple of hours or so. This got me wondering whether the thing was overheating.

I opened up the case, and YUK! Inside that case was about the most revolting sight I've ever seen. There were thick deposits of tarry, gooey congealed tobacco shite over every single surface, motherboard and all. The PSU fan had completely seized (i.e. it wasn't moving at all) and the CPU fan was sounding distinctly unwell.

In the end I stripped the whole thing, cleaned the motherboard, PCI and ISA cards as best I could using IPA and/or a compressed air can, replaced both fans, reassembled it and reinstalled Windows. I suggested that she tried not to smoke next to it while working, but she didn't take the advice...

Posted by Bruce McGee (Member # 131) on 08-12-2003, 09:31 PM:

I got YET ANOTHER DVD player today. Same problem. Dirty lens. Before I cleaned it, it would only indicate that there was no disc in the machine, when in fact it was there.

I've seen TV's that were absolutely dark brown inside. Just think what the inside of the owners lungs looks like if the TV is that nasty!

This is totally off topic, but we tend to do that here. I think that cleaning the disc when I get it is a good idea.

Posted by Mike Blakesley (Member # 26) on 08-12-2003, 10:24 PM:

Has anyone ever seen one of those CD/DVD repair machines? We keep getting flyers for these at my day job. Supposedly you put the disk in and it "buffs" off the layer with the scratches. It's all done automatically...the user just has to change the buffing pads from coarse to fine (polishing) grades. They claim it will repair all but deep scratches. Anyone ever see one of these things in action?

I forget the name of it, but they cost something like $750.

Posted by Martin Brooks (Member # 1269) on 08-28-2003, 12:29 AM:

quote:
at also reminds me of a thing that pisses me off at commercial theaters. People (or should I say PIGS) who dump their sodas and popcorn out all over the floor. Would they do that shit in their own living room when watching a movie at home!? Then what the fuck gives them the right to do that at a commerical theater? Assholes!

This drives me crazy also, but it's the same sick psychology as men who won't flush public toilets after they use them. And this type of behavior doesn't just happen at theaters, it's everywhere. I attended the US Open two years ago and the place looked like a sewer when the matches were over and this was a supposedly high-profile, upper income crowd. I live near a large public park that has trash baskets about every 20' and hardly anyone ever uses them. They just leave their trash on the ground to blow around. On Monday mornings, the place looks like a trash dump.

Unfortunately, people are pigs and they get away with it.

You can't do much about it in a movie theater, but I think there should be minimum $500 fines for littering in a public place.

Posted by Ron Lacheur (Member # 1126) on 08-28-2003, 02:55 AM:

Up here there are littering fines as well as a $250 fine for not picking your dog's shit up.

At any convention held at the stadium's around here, the washrooms are just disgusting for all the reasons listed above.

Posted by Bobby Henderson (Member # 840) on 08-29-2003, 12:03 PM:

quote:
Unfortunately, people are pigs and they get away with it.

That is true. But they only do it since the rest of us don't call them on their baloney. Lately, when I see someone doing something trashy, I call them directly on it. If I am in a place of business, I direct a manager's attention to it. If something illegal is happening and a cop is nearby, I let him know about it. Basically, I don't let the shit slide. I'll probably have to start carrying a gun to protect myself though. There is inherent risk in doing the right thing.

This is a signal of how bad the apathy has become: my mother has a new co-worker who has had his driver's license suspended for 6 years. Why so long? During a traffic hearing a couple years ago, the dude had all his heroin equipment and dope on his person right there in the courtroom! I guess a spoon fell out of his pants. He was facing the judge for driving while high. Needless to say, the judge gave him the maximum sentence. If it weren't for prison overcrowding the judge might have put him away for awhile. It is amazing someone would be stupid enough to carry dope into a courtroom. I guess he did what he wanted to do since no one ever got in his way in the past. The fellow has been clean now for over a year and seems to be trying. But still...damn! [Roll Eyes]

Posted by Carl Martin (Member # 1146) on 08-29-2003, 08:20 PM:

i guess this is a littering thread now. littering bugs the hell out of me. it's hard not to let emotion turn counterproductive in a confrontation, though. i've even tried saying things along the lines of, "oh, i think you dropped something," like it was accidental. only once have i seen the offender actually pick the trash up. usually they just shrug it off. sometimes i'll then get more aggressive, especially when it's right in front of the theater and i'll end up having to clean it up. but once hostility is introduced, each side just gets more entrenched. i don't want to get physical, so ultimately there's not really anything that can be done.

one thing i want to try is to carry a disposable camera and just calmly and overtly snap a picture whenever i see someone litter or otherwise misbehave. hopefully that would encourage a little accountability.

carl

Posted by Michael Barry (Member # 237) on 12-22-2003, 07:48 AM:

Carl,

Just make sure you dispose of the camera thoughtfully when you're done. [Wink]

Posted by Carl Martin (Member # 1146) on 12-22-2003, 08:21 AM:

i understand they get recycled.

we have disposables conveniently at hand in the box office, but whenever there's some incident we forget/chicken out of using them. just last week there was an altercation with some unrulies who, we later found out, pulled a gun on another customer after leaving. i sure wish we had "documented" them.

carl

Posted by John Pytlak (Member # 331) on 12-24-2003, 10:34 AM:

Thanks to efforts by Kodak, "Single-Use Cameras" are one of the most successful recycling initiatives in the world today:

Kodak Single-Use Camera Recycling Program

quote:
Kodak began recycling single-use cameras in 1990. Since then, we’ve chronicled the phenomenal annual progress and growth of this program – clearly one of the most successful recycling initiatives in the world today.

This year, we proudly update the statistics that herald the magnitude of the program.

This year, however, we also share a “story behind the story,” a bit of information about the disabled and disadvantaged people who have been helped significantly by playing a vital role in our success.

The statistics, again, are impressive by any standard. In 2001, we again recycled well over 100 million single-use cameras – and we passed the half-billion mark in cameras recycled since the program’s inception. Approximately two out of every three of our single-use cameras sold in the world comes back to us, a rate that makes it among the most recycled packaged consumer products ever. In the United States, that rate is even higher.

The story behind the story concerns a facility not far from Kodak headquarters in Rochester, New York. It’s called The Out-Source, and it’s part of the not-for-profit Rochester Rehabilitation Center, Inc., a provider of comprehensive vocational and rehabilitation services for people with disabilities and other disadvantages.

The Out-Source is where every one of those 100-million-plus cameras a year makes its first stop in the recycling process. And, the Out-Source is the epitome of what the Rochester Rehabilitation Center is all about – a place where participants can build skills, confidence and strong work habits. For some, The Out-Source employment is a long-term solution to their needs, while others may eventually be able to move to other vocational situations.

The major activity at The Out-Source is sorting. The cameras are shipped to Rochester in huge boxes and unloaded onto the facility’s conveyors at a rate in excess of 300,000 a day. Some are Kodak brands, others are not. Some have flash capability, others do not.

Whatever the camera, the 200 people who work one of the two daily shifts at The Out-Source know exactly what must be done with it. And, they do their job extremely well. The Out-Source bids on the Kodak work just like any other potential supplier and has kept the contract over the years.

“The Out-Source is a highly effective, well-managed organization,” says a quality assurance engineer in Kodak’s purchasing group. “The Out-Source is committed to customer satisfaction and continuous improvement.”

While Kodak gains a job well-done, those performing the tasks gain some things, too – things like self-esteem, confidence, financial support, and a means of socializing with others.

As Kodak’s recycling program has expanded, The Out-Source as added new technology to allow its people to keep up with the increased workload. In this case, it seems, everybody wins.